|07-11-2013 06:40 AM|
|R. David Jain||
An alternate 4dKH recipe
Here are some instructions I wrote up for an alternate method to make 4dKH solution. I had two main goals in coming up with this method: The first was to avoid the need for accurate weighing equipment (in fact, there is no weighing at all in this method, just measuring volumes). The second was to have it work even if the baking soda is not "fresh"... so that it would be precise even using an already-opened package that may have absorbed some water. The answer to both these requirements was to start with a fully saturated solution of baking soda and dilute from there. Since the saturation concentrations of sodium bicarbonate in (distilled) water are well-defined and known, this should (and in my estimation DOES) give good results, without having to measure out small amounts of baking soda ("is my level teaspoon level enough? Is the soda too compacted? How do I measure out 2 grams and how much of that is water??"). After some science facts and preliminaries, I lay out the steps below. I didn't have the energy to make a separate "what you will need" section, so you may want to read through the instructions first and make a list (almost everything is something that most people, especially fish-keepers, will have around the house anyway). The steps are simple enough, if long-winded, and this level of precision really isn't necessary probably for most people, but it was fun to come up with, and gives me peace of mind knowing that my "4dKH" solution is accurate to a few percent, and I won't inadvertently gas my fish .
Without further ado...
Relevant solubility figures (in water) for sodium bicarbonate
(see full temperature range of solubility at: http://www.tatachemicals.com/europe/...solubility.pdf)
69 g/L (0 °C)
96 g/L (20 °C)
165 g/L (60 °C)
236 g/L (100 °C)
Solubility vs. temperature is highly linear in the full range 0-100C relevant for liquid water, so one can interpolate
from these figures as needed. For example, interpolating the solubility at 25C using the data points for 0C and 20C
gives (solubility at 25C) ~ [96 + 5*(96-69)/20]=102.75 g/L, and this is close enough for our purposes.
Our goal in this process will be to reach a concentration of 120mg/liter NaHCO3. From Wikipedia (edited for brevity):
"An aqueous solution containing 120 mg NaHCO3 (baking soda) per litre of water will contain 1.4285 mmol/L of bicarbonate.
...Since one degree KH = 17.848 mg/L CaCO3, this solution has a KH of 4.0052 degrees."
"Water" throughout refers to distilled (or de-ionized) water.
Dilution ratios are given as (amount total final mixture) : (amount starting solution). So, "Dilute 2:1" means
mix 1 part starting solution with 1 part distilled water.
"1 Cup" here does not necessarily have to mean 1 8oz cup (though it could be). You can decide on exactly what size
"cup" you would like to use depending on your needs. Larger quantities mean a more accurate dilution, but more wasted
materials (baking soda and distilled water). I chose to use a "cup" size which was actually 3/4cup=180mL because I had
a 3/4 measuring cup handy.
Be sure to wash and thoroughly dry (tap water is fine for this) your mixing vessels at EACH STAGE of the dilution.
Because we will be diluting over several orders of magnitude in concentration, even a small residue of higher
concentration material from an earlier step (say, from re-using the mixing vessels) will throw off the final
1) Create a saturated solution of sodium bicarbonate. First mix 2cups hot water with enough baking soda to saturate the solution. You will know that it's saturated when no more of the powder can dissolve and any additional amount added falls to the bottom of your mixing vessel. Using hot water (distilled water heated on the stove) ensures that the solution is truly saturated. After dissolving, we will cool the water back to room temperature, allowing any excess to precipitate out. Do not heat the water too much (warm to the touch is fine)!! At high temperatures, the bicarbonate ions begin releasing C02 and water to form carbonate ions, which will throw off the calculations.
2) Cool the water back to room temperature. For me, this was 25C, so my calculations in the later steps are based on this number. Adjust your numbers accordingly. Using an electronic temperature probe (like one used for cooking) submerged directly in the water will help you tell when the temperature has finished dropping and give you a more precise final temperature reading than a wall thermometer or home thermostat.
3) Do an initial dilution of 2:1. I would suggest bottling and saving a large portion (1cup or more) of this initial dilution to use for making more 4dKH water in the future, without having to repeat steps 1 and 2). You probably want to use a coffee filter for this initial dilution to get out any precipitated bits of baking soda. By diluting 2:1, we ensure no further precipitation of the bicarbonate out of solution, even if the temperature drops. Be sure to label the concentration of this solution on the bottle based on your temperature reading and the 2:1 dilution!!
4) Assuming the temperature of your starting solution was 25C, after this 2:1 dilution, you will have a concentration of 51.375 g/L (one half the saturation concentration read-off or interpolated from the solubility information above, based on your solution's temperature after cooling). Let's get diluting! We need to dilute by an overall factor of [51375mg/L]/[120mg/L]=428.125 (adjust the first number on the left as needed).
5) Dilute in a ratio of 2:1 8 times (NOT counting the initial 2:1 dilution). Keep track of your dilutions!! I STRONGLY suggest you have a pad of paper next to you to check off each 2:1 dilution, to make sure you do exactly 8). After this, the solution will be at 6.69 dKH (=428.125/2^8*4dKH if the starting solution was at 25C... adjust this number according to your situation).
6) The final step requires some precision in terms of measuring volumes, but if you have a dropper that can measure 1mL, an API test kit with test tubes marked with a 5mL line, and a larger measuring cup that can measure a few hundred mL's at a time in increments of 10 (available in most bigger supermarkets' cooking sections), it shouldn't be too hard. We need
to take the 6.69dKH solution that we now have (or whatever you got based on your starting temperature) and dilute it down to 4dKH. In the following formula, replace 6.69 with whatever your number is. Defining x as the number of mL's of distilled water that we need to add, and Y as the number of mL's in your user-defined "cup" (you should have at this point exactly 2 "cups" of diluted fluid), with some simple reasoning we can derive the equation:
x= 2Y*(6.69/4 - 1)
Once you add this many mL of water to the 2 "cups" of solution you already have, the resulting mixture will be at 4dKH! We're done!! Now bottle that sh*t! (Small refillable bottles for toiletries or what have you can be bought at a well-stocked grocery or drug store).
7) Testing: When I tested my results with the standard API KH tester, it changed color at 6 drops (indicating a KH of between 5 and 6 degrees). You will probably get a similar "off" result. Do not worry! These tests are notoriously imprecise (or rather, they are precise enough for the needs of typical aquarists, but they are not lab quality). I got independent confirmation of this fact when I had my local fish store test a sample of water that I had just tested for comparison. Their result was 2.1dKH, while mine was 4dKH (to within the error implied by counting a discrete number of drops). I don't know for sure what method they were using, but it was likely more accurate than mine (based on the fact that they can afford, and have interest in owning, more accurate equipment, coupled with the fact that they quoted me a number to the first decimal place, whereas your standard kit "rounds" to the nearest whole number). So, this tells me that my kit probably tests a little high, meaning that my reading of 5-6 was really closer to the 4 we should expect. In the end, the real "proof" of this method is in the procedure. So long as we followed the steps correctly (and that basic science works), there should be no reason not to get the 4dKH solution we were expecting. Still and all, a "sanity" check at the end is useful, just to reassure ourselves that we didn't screw something up TOO badly . If your number is way different from 4, then you might have mis-counted dilutions, have an expired test kit, or run into some other unknown gremlin. Short of this, just go ahead and assume that the solution is what it should be.
Happy drop-checking! I hope some of you out there find this useful .
|10-12-2012 02:13 AM|
|Mathman||I think I should have read the previous post...I already had some API Ph test kit...I added 3 drops to the drop checker along with the KH solution and now I have a reading...thanks|
|10-12-2012 01:33 AM|
Thank you very much for the instruction on how to make a 4dKh solution.
I just finished making it and tested the water with a new API KH test...perfect 4 degrees.
Now, I'll add some to my drop checker and stick it inside the tank. Should the color change in a few hours to indicate the level of co2 in the water?
|09-29-2012 09:34 PM|
|Hoppy||Standard pH solutions are much more difficult and complicated than the "salt" solutions this thread is about. If someone is a good chemist, and can design a kitchen measuring equipment way to make standard pH solutions please do so, and I will put them in the first post in the thread.|
|09-29-2012 02:23 PM|
|AquariumNoob||Someone otta do one of these for Ph! :P. Bought a PH Pen which needs calibration, and ive got no access to any fancy stuff nor do i want to spend another 15$ On bottles of stuff for calibration.|
|09-28-2012 11:47 PM|
|Hoppy||Of course you do need to add a pH indicator solution, but you don't add anything to change the pH of the water in the drop checker.|
|09-28-2012 10:53 PM|
Hoppy, here I found it. Does this sound Familiar ?
First buy or make a 4 dKH standard solution (consisting of distilled water and a tiny bit of baking soda only). There are several ways to make it, including http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fe...tml#post801218
Fill the drop checker bulb about half full of this 4 dKH water, then add 2-3 drops of pH test kit reagent, one that is yellow at low pH and blue at high pH, such as the API pH test kit reagent.
|09-28-2012 10:50 PM|
Thanks Hoppy for that info. I just thought I saw a while back you responded to something in regards to this and mentioned about 2-3 drops of PH solution to add. Probably didn't catch it right LOL .. So, I'll just use the made up 4dkh solution and see what kind of readings I get.
Thank you again ....
|09-28-2012 09:58 PM|
Atmospheric CO2 is enough to make a 4 dKH standard reference solution be dark blue. Adding an acid to lower the pH would only introduce more inaccuracy. The only improvements I know of for drop checkers are:
Use a pH meter instead of the pH reagent.
Improve the time response of the DC by increasing the contact area between the tank water to trapped air, and the trapped air to DC solution, plus reducing the volume of the DC solution.
Both of those improvements are doable if you use a semi-permeable membrane instead of trapped air to separate the tank water from the DC water. But, it isn't an easy design to do, and have it work well.
|09-28-2012 09:33 PM|
Question: once I have the 4dkh solution here, do I just add to the drop checker or would I add a low PH solution say a drop or 2 to get the Dark Blue color as well into the drop checker and then wait a couple of hrs for correct readings ? I know you mentioned (which makes sense) in regards to "What is Green" to the eye.
|07-16-2012 05:04 PM|
|Hoppy||I have tried 2 drop checkers numerous times, with various KH fluids in them, hoping that would improve the accuracy. It never did. The basic problem is the difficulty in judging the color of the solution - a slight mistake in judging what is "green" makes a big mistake in the ppm of CO2 you think you have. I ended up the happiest when I used yellow as the desired color, and DIY CO2 so I could be sure I wouldn't ever have too much CO2. Then I just tried to keep the DC color yellow, which was relatively easy.|
|07-02-2012 08:46 PM|
Folloup up to Drop-Checker Question
Apropos above "conversation" between Hoppy & Aadro:
Yup, I think I'm going to get myself two drop-checkers too!
|07-02-2012 08:19 PM|
Newbie question on non-standard drop-checker use
Thanks Hoppy! That's useful. So, in that case, I'll be even "safer" using my method, so that if I use 2dKH instead of 4dKH, if the solution goes yellow, I'm less likely to overdose with CO2, although I realize from your comment that I am also likely to under-dose! May eventually need a more accurate meter of some sort!
Any ideas from anybody?
|07-02-2012 07:25 PM|
I experimented a lot with using a drop checker where yellow was the indication of the right amount of CO2. This was primarily for DIY CO2, where the battle is about getting enough CO2, not about avoiding too much CO2. I ended up using 1.7 dKH fluid. It worked pretty well for me when I was using it, but making 1.7 dKH fluid is hard to do without starting with a good, known KH solution. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=129720
|06-20-2012 05:27 PM|
Newbie issue: Non-standard issue of drop-cheker
(1) Does this approach seem reasonable, or am I forgetting/ignoring something important?
(2) Now the more "techy" question. MOst standard drop-checkers, set up with 4dKH, turn green at 30ppm. This works fine for those who want to keep their tanks at 30ppm CO2, but it wouldn't work well for me. I need an indicator that'll tell me (say go from blue to green) at 15ppm instead of 30ppm. So, looking at Hoppy's above post, I thought, why don't I make a 2dKH solution to put in the drop checker? The charts [ http://freshwateraquariumplants.com/...xidechart.html ] seem to say that 2dKH will get to pH=6.6 at about 15 ppm instead of 30ppm, so this should work for me, right? All I do is put 2dKH standard solution and a few drops of the indicator into the drop-checker, and voila! I calibrate CO2 to keep the solution green without going blue or yellow, just like everybody else does, but I'm keeping it at 15ppm, not 30ppm, right? What am I missing?
Thanks for your help in advance!
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