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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-26-2013 10:53 AM
roadmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by ua hua View Post
Lets not turn this into one of those threads. I'm sure there is some benefit to using this in aquaculture the same way kelp meal is used or why would these fish/shrimp farms use it. I agree with Tom in the fact that these minor trace elements are not that important but for me it's all about trying to find a cheaper alternative for dosing and the fact that it's natural is a bonus for me.

Azomite that they used as feed supplement according to ingredient list on video, made no mention of lead,mercury,arsenic, that appear's on list of ingredient's if you just google content of the azomite.
I think this makes sense,not many folk's want to eat fish/shrimp that have ingested the lead,mercury,arsenic.
Maybe is different formula for plant's,crops,than what is used in video as feed supplement or...they convienently left out the lead,mercury,arsenic.
My brother has some of the azomite left, and while I might give it a go in plant only tank in the future,,I don't think I will risk trying it with my fishes,shrimp's no matter how miniscule the proportion of offending ingredient's.
09-25-2013 11:01 PM
happi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapins View Post
I have much respect for kekon. He used to make his own micros from the ground up rather than using premade products. Can you link the thread where he talks about adding Ni?
Quote from Kekon

Quote:
Together with my friend we decided to dose plain urea in our tanks as a source of nitrogen. Personally i dosed about 0.5 ppm of N from urea. After a week new leaves were about 2 times bigger than normal ones. No algae appeared. Nitrates level stayed almost unchanged during the experiment (i didn't dose NO3 but only urea). It showed that plants preferred urea over NO3. No other parameters were changed (micros, PO4, Ca, Mg etc. weren't changed). We also added some nickel into water (NiCl2 * 6H2O) as it seemed plants needed nickel to produce urease to convert urea. I don't have any photos yet but i'll run the experiment once again to confirm my experiences and take some photos of my plants.
he talks about benefits of using Nickel when dosing with Urea or Seachem nitrogen, in my case this is important because i dose heavy Urea in my tank, you can look at my thread in my signature. he never said we have to use Nickel, but its useful while dosing Urea, here is the link:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...cro-ferts.html
09-25-2013 09:01 PM
Zapins I have much respect for kekon. He used to make his own micros from the ground up rather than using premade products. Can you link the thread where he talks about adding Ni?
09-25-2013 08:12 PM
happi
Quote:
Originally Posted by plantbrain View Post
Ni is proven results in planted tanks? Really? Forget light intensity and CO2, it's all about some hyper minor trace? I agree with what Zapins stated. This would be incredibly difficult to demonstrate for a researcher, let alone a hobbyists.

CMS does fine, I think finding another product or source is fine also, particularly if it is cheaper and more available. If it has these other minor minor traces just to be sexy, well hunky dory.

I've yet to find any plant species that I cannot grow quite well using CMS.
In fact, I have long offered challenges to others making such claims for various nutrients, ppm's and I've never lost yet after 20 years now. Name the plant that has trouble specific to these traces and is improved by this?
You need to be able to state this, otherwise it's pie in the sky and you have no clear hypothesis to test.

So the real issue is one that offers another product that is similar, does the same type of job and is cheap/more available etc. I'm on board there. The rest is speculation/wishful thinking I would argue.
Tom i have never claimed that we need to have those Traces, CSM+B works fine i have already stated it in my post, if things can improve it further why not try it, if Nickel have no effect on plant growth then why does Seachem Flourish Trace uses it? i have seen other traces don't use it beside seachem, could this be because seachem uses Urea in their Nitrogen? Nickel is beneficial when you use NH4/Urea Nitrogen. i could be wrong on whatever i have said but Kekon at APC have added it and he claim it does help the plant.

i cannot confirm his claim because i haven't tried it yet, until then we should wait.
09-25-2013 07:34 PM
ua hua Lets not turn this into one of those threads. I'm sure there is some benefit to using this in aquaculture the same way kelp meal is used or why would these fish/shrimp farms use it. I agree with Tom in the fact that these minor trace elements are not that important but for me it's all about trying to find a cheaper alternative for dosing and the fact that it's natural is a bonus for me.
09-25-2013 07:25 PM
roadmaster Supposed weight gain could have been from the lead in azomite.(say's with chuckle).
Fish pictured on control feed before azomite,looked emaciated, and would indeed in my view be more suceptible to disease,parasites.
Enter miracle grow feed, (or any other feed)fatten em up,,and stronger immune system. less disease.
09-25-2013 06:53 PM
FlyingHellFish ...lawn chair.....pop corn......
09-25-2013 06:38 PM
xxUnRaTeDxxRkOxx
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadmaster View Post
Please share ANY sources that promote this powder as boosting fishes immune system,increased growth of fishes ,treatment or preventitive for parasites.
Or are these just your observation's?


Proof of Azomite use... Disregard the "algae" part of the video, because in powder form Azomite does not increase algae in aquariums.


So are you done with being "that guy"?
09-25-2013 06:04 PM
roadmaster Still waiting for any sources that promote this trace mineral powder,in the boosting of fishes immune system,increased growth,or as preventitive /treatment against parasites,disease.(I nearly spit up).
I have some miracle mud that will make you look ten year's younger. Don't mind the manure smell.
09-25-2013 05:59 PM
plantbrain Ni is proven results in planted tanks? Really? Forget light intensity and CO2, it's all about some hyper minor trace? I agree with what Zapins stated. This would be incredibly difficult to demonstrate for a researcher, let alone a hobbyists.

CMS does fine, I think finding another product or source is fine also, particularly if it is cheaper and more available. If it has these other minor minor traces just to be sexy, well hunky dory.

I've yet to find any plant species that I cannot grow quite well using CMS.
In fact, I have long offered challenges to others making such claims for various nutrients, ppm's and I've never lost yet after 20 years now. Name the plant that has trouble specific to these traces and is improved by this?
You need to be able to state this, otherwise it's pie in the sky and you have no clear hypothesis to test.

So the real issue is one that offers another product that is similar, does the same type of job and is cheap/more available etc. I'm on board there. The rest is speculation/wishful thinking I would argue.
09-25-2013 05:38 PM
WendyF
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxUnRaTeDxxRkOxx View Post
I dose it dry ever month, I just drop right into the current of the outflow from my canister filter and walk off. The current breaks it up, so I'd say it's like dosing other dry ferts. So far I have no complaints once I dialed in the right amount to dose, I had an Anubias Nana that went from 2" across leaf growth to 4" across and almost 8" long.
Thank you so much for chiming in with your experience! I'm very excited to try out the sample Azomite a nice guy at my LFS gave me. What he gave me in granules & you say you use a powder - would you grind it up before dry dosing? I really appreciate you sharing your history with this stuff.
09-25-2013 02:41 PM
roadmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxUnRaTeDxxRkOxx View Post
Azomite huh, I've been using it for the past 2 years lol. I've used it in planted tanks, shrimp tanks, even in a cichlid tank. Azomite powder helps to boost fishes immune system to fight off parasites, disease, as well as boost the overall growth. For shrimp it helps immune system as well, but also helps to strengthen their exoskeleton and boost overall growth.

For aquatic plants Azomite supplies a mineral rich additive, helps to boost the plants ability to fight off parasites, and gives great overall growth.

Now here's the WARNING about Azomite in the planted tank.

Azomite is a potent substance, meaning that if you add too much too fast your plants will start dying off. I use 1/4 teaspoon of Azomite powder per 55 gallons of water once a month, that's right ONCE a month in my 55 gallon tank.

I've settled on this amount because I've done test using more, and using it often to see the results. 1/4 teaspoon once per month I found to be the right amount without any loss of plants, and livestock.


Azomite powder guaranteed analysis

Please share ANY sources that promote this powder as boosting fishes immune system,increased growth of fishes ,treatment or preventitive for parasites.
Or are these just your observation's?
09-25-2013 06:02 AM
Zapins Possibly but the concentration of nickel you need for plants to be healthy is below 0.0001 ppm. This crazy low amount could come from virtually any source. Fish flake food, dust in the air, whatever gets past an RO membrane, residual amounts in your substrate. And as far as I know nickel is only used in that one enzyme in plants, so understandably the plants hardly need any at all.


See my research on the subject over at APC:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...tml#post661982
09-25-2013 05:47 AM
happi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapins View Post
I suspect that CSM+B is missing those elements because most are not essential for plant growth.

Chlorine is probably present in one of the salts used to make up one of the other components in CSM+B, something like CaCl2, so it is probably there.

Sodium, cobalt, silicon and selenium can be beneficial to some plant species but they are not essential or even necessary for growth.

Rubidium and vanadium, are not even beneficial for most plants and they are not essential. So you don't need to worry about a vanadium deficiency



From:
http://www.soils.wisc.edu/~barak/soi...6/listofel.htm

we are still mising NIckel from csm+b which is highlited in green color, even though we can get away without adding other traces, i still think adding nickel would improve the csm+b.

Kekon at APC talks about adding Nickel in the trace and it has proven to show postive results.
09-25-2013 04:51 AM
xxUnRaTeDxxRkOxx
Quote:
Originally Posted by happi View Post
do you have a picture of your tank you used it on?
Here's my old 75 gallon high tech tank that I traded for a 100 gallon tank.

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