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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-26-2013 03:42 PM
houseofcards
Quote:
Originally Posted by Green_Flash View Post
I agree aswell, I see sometimes, a taking to the extreme of the high flow mentality on a planted tank. As if it will prevent algae or be some end all to other problems.

Lets go even bigger though, at the ADA gallery they use two filters on a 6 x 4 x 2 tank 360 gallons. They use x2 ES-2400 I believe. Less than x3 turnover per hour. These tanks also have Roseline Sharks. All the plants are thriving. This isn't about blindly following the ADA style because Amano said so, like some tend to point out. They have proved the concept on a large scale and in numerous tanks.
Very true!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Silock View Post
So, am I to take from this that one canister filter (350 gph) and 1 lily pipe should be sufficient?
Flow wise you should be fine. If your running co2 as long as the co2 is dissolved either inline or with a fine-mist diffuser.
03-26-2013 06:13 AM
Silock So, am I to take from this that one canister filter (350 gph) and 1 lily pipe should be sufficient?
03-26-2013 01:40 AM
Green_Flash I agree aswell, I see sometimes, a taking to the extreme of the high flow mentality on a planted tank. As if it will prevent algae or be some end all to other problems.

Lets go even bigger though, at the ADA gallery they use two filters on a 6 x 4 x 2 tank 360 gallons. They use x2 ES-2400 I believe. Less than x3 turnover per hour. These tanks also have Roseline Sharks. All the plants are thriving. This isn't about blindly following the ADA style because Amano said so, like some tend to point out. They have proved the concept on a large scale and in numerous tanks.
03-25-2013 07:33 PM
houseofcards
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff5614 View Post
I agree with your point. You read a lot in the forums that you need a filter that turns over your tank 10x per hour, in tank diffusers can't supply enough CO2 for a larger tank, etc. Then you check out the specs on ADA's tanks and find them to be a bit of a contradiction to all of that. Which leads me to think that one doesn't need a pump moving 750gph on a 75g tank and a quality in tank diffuser is more than sufficient.

Not that I have any experience with one, but one of the points that ADA makes about the Superjets is that they deliver the gph that they're rated for and maintain it despite media becoming clogged. That's not something other manufacturers claim and I can certainly attest that it isn't the case with my Eheims either.
Agreed, and it's not only the ADA tanks, but mine as well. Even if the superjets don't lose any flow, there are still only three out of the box and you have to expect some reduction just on physics alone. Point is I can look at my multiple tanks with very little flow and the ADA ones taking co2 across a 6-ft distance without any additional flow devices and the plants look pretty healthy to me. The ability for dissolved co2 or co2 mist coming from those diffusers simply doesn't need strong flow to saturate a tank 6-ft let alone one that is 2-4 in most cases.
03-25-2013 05:32 PM
Jeff5614
Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
That information is also supported by 'The Book of ADA' which gives the specs of some 'photo shoot' tanks in terms of equipment, co2, maintenance. The filter used on the 6-footers is the Super Jet ES-2400 which has a flow rate of about 480 GPH out of the box from what I can tell (someone correct me if I'm wrong). That would give a 180 with that filter a turnover over under 3x out of the box.
From a maintenance side, yeah the gallery could be over maintaining, but what about co2/fert delivery on such a long tank with that flow? I don't see any deficiencies from lack of flow.
I agree with your point. You read a lot in the forums that you need a filter that turns over your tank 10x per hour, in tank diffusers can't supply enough CO2 for a larger tank, etc. Then you check out the specs on ADA's tanks and find them to be a bit of a contradiction to all of that. Which leads me to think that one doesn't need a pump moving 750gph on a 75g tank and a quality in tank diffuser is more than sufficient.

Not that I have any experience with one, but one of the points that ADA makes about the Superjets is that they deliver the gph that they're rated for and maintain it despite media becoming clogged. That's not something other manufacturers claim and I can certainly attest that it isn't the case with my Eheims either.
03-25-2013 04:54 PM
houseofcards On my 72G (4-ft) tank I showed above. It is powered by one Eheim 2215 (which you know is pretty weak flow-wise), but there are no issues with the plants. This is some pics of pearling from the tank.



03-25-2013 04:49 PM
houseofcards
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasCichlid View Post
You figure it would be white water rapids, but I just perceive the flow as "adequate." Plants barely sway. If you get right in the line of the lily pipe, flow is strong, otherwise, it's meh. I'd love an acrylic spraybar.
So it sounds like you just prefer more flow, but if your plants are barely swaying that is more than adequate. You don't necessarily have to 'see' flow for it to be more than adequate for delivery of co2/ferts.
03-25-2013 04:39 PM
TexasCichlid
Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
I don't know those tanks look pretty good. What kind of issues are you having with the 2075 on your 17 gallon? i can't imagine how your having flow issues on a 2 -ft tank with a 2075.
You figure it would be white water rapids, but I just perceive the flow as "adequate." Plants barely sway. If you get right in the line of the lily pipe, flow is strong, otherwise, it's meh. I'd love an acrylic spraybar.
03-25-2013 04:35 PM
houseofcards
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasCichlid View Post
I don't see how. I have a 2075 - which is pretty beefy on a tank this size at 330 gph or 19 turnovers per hour - with inline components on a 60p ( 17 gallon tank ) and a 17mm lily pipe and I sometimes wish there was MORE flow. I get some dead spots when the plants get thick. Lily pipes are simply not very effective at distributing water. They look nice, but a spraybar or adjustable jet nozzles are far superior - especially on a bigger tank.
I don't know those tanks look pretty good. What kind of issues are you having with the 2075 on your 17 gallon? i can't imagine how your having flow issues on a 2 -ft tank with a 2075.
03-25-2013 04:00 PM
TexasCichlid
Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
To what end? Whether it's rimless or not, pushing the aesthetic aside these tanks are getting adequate flow.
I don't see how. I have a 2075 - which is pretty beefy on a tank this size at 330 gph or 19 turnovers per hour - with inline components on a 60p ( 17 gallon tank ) and a 17mm lily pipe and I sometimes wish there was MORE flow. I get some dead spots when the plants get thick. Lily pipes are simply not very effective at distributing water. They look nice, but a spraybar or adjustable jet nozzles are far superior - especially on a bigger tank.
03-25-2013 02:56 PM
houseofcards
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasCichlid View Post
One lily pipe with one filter? I would not find that adequate. Unless you have a rimless tank and want the aesthetic, there are more effective ways of distributing flow.
To what end? Whether it's rimless or not, pushing the aesthetic aside these tanks are getting adequate flow.
03-25-2013 02:50 PM
houseofcards
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff5614 View Post
Yep, most of the larger tanks in the AGA gallery appear to have one filter. The image I posted of the 180p from AFA was just the first image of a larger tank that google gave me.
That information is also supported by 'The Book of ADA' which gives the specs of some 'photo shoot' tanks in terms of equipment, co2, maintenance. The filter used on the 6-footers is the Super Jet ES-2400 which has a flow rate of about 480 GPH out of the box from what I can tell (someone correct me if I'm wrong). That would give a 180 with that filter a turnover over under 3x out of the box.
From a maintenance side, yeah the gallery could be over maintaining, but what about co2/fert delivery on such a long tank with that flow? I don't see any deficiencies from lack of flow.
03-25-2013 02:49 PM
Silock
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasCichlid View Post
One lily pipe with one filter? I would not find that adequate. Unless you have a rimless tank and want the aesthetic, there are more effective ways of distributing flow.
Is there another way that doesn't require a sump, and will deal with surface scum without using a surface skimmer?
03-25-2013 02:48 PM
Silock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff5614 View Post
I'm sure they're using two filters. If you want to use one filter you might think about a sump or wet dry. If you want to stay with a canister then look at the larger ones like an Eheim 1500XL.
I'm trying to stay away from a sump. I have a Cascade 1500 for it (350 gph). If possible, I'd rather just add a powerhead than another filter.
03-25-2013 02:40 PM
Jeff5614
Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
It appears so on the one that you linked from AFA (nothing wrong with that), but look at the 180 size tanks in the gallery.

http://www.pbase.com/plantella/natur...m_gallery_2005

These have one filter. The only one that appears to have two filters and two diffusers is the 10-ft entrance tank. There is a limit, but how many of us have 10-ft tanks. But if you look at my link and the other tanks at ADA the 6-ft and under tanks have one filter and no powerheads
Yep, most of the larger tanks in the AGA gallery appear to have one filter. The image I posted of the 180p from AFA was just the first image of a larger tank that google gave me.
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