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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-19-2013 11:42 AM
CrypticLifeStyle Yeah I use pool filter sand in my tanks. Havnt experienced it myself. Wonder if the carbon theory's also apply to it too. Barbel hith
03-18-2013 03:11 AM
papwalker
Quote:
Originally Posted by VAtanks View Post
My peppered is fine in my 20g pretty rough substrait, hes got really nice barbles quite long compared to alot I have seen, but he is about 4ish years old.
I never use fine sand and all my corys are fine. It is likely that everyday wear and tear on substrate combined with questionable water qualities leads to problems.

Experiments have been done keeping corydoras on glass fragments substrate with out issue. I've seen substrate in Venezuelan Orinoco streams that will scrape your hands and feet raw. I've seen issues come up on planetcatfish where even with beautiful sand, guys corys are suffering fin and barbel erosion.

Fixing either one will likely reduce the issue.

Wild corys in Columbia, note the not so smooth substrate.
03-18-2013 02:10 AM
VAtanks My peppered is fine in my 20g pretty rough substrait, hes got really nice barbles quite long compared to alot I have seen, but he is about 4ish years old.
03-15-2013 12:00 PM
CrypticLifeStyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by papwalker View Post
Yes I read that article.
[/I]It would be interesting to see pathology comparisons between FW and SW cases.
It's a bit like the substrate and barbel erosion issue with Corydoras.
[/COLOR]
I know people are quick to jump to the water quality on that subject, even if the water is fine, but I find that to be flawed. I think its just the quality of stock, genetic as they are a farmed fish. I think someone should take a poll, and see where they got the corys if they experience the erosion.

Also when serving their purpose they do, and can be dragged on substrate. If one were to think if they dragged a piece of their body across substrate you would experience scratching of the skin, possibly cuts etc etc, substrate digging, but most refuse to accept that for whatever reason.
03-14-2013 05:13 PM
pmcarbrey
Quote:
Originally Posted by VAtanks View Post
you beat me to it Papwalker, I was going to say the same thing, Mysteries everywhere.

My question is do Angels suffer the same HITH as other Chiclidea? I don't run carbon on anything but I was curious. Purigen is all I use for chem filtering.
IME They do. Everytime I add carbon to remove meds or tannins my angels develop split fins
03-14-2013 05:11 PM
VAtanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by papwalker View Post
Yes I read that article.
[/I]It would be interesting to see pathology comparisons between FW and SW cases.
It's a bit like the substrate and barbel erosion issue with Corydoras.[/COLOR]

you beat me to it Papwalker, I was going to say the same thing, Mysteries everywhere.

My question is do Angels suffer the same HITH as other Chiclidea? I don't run carbon on anything but I was curious. Purigen is all I use for chem filtering.
03-14-2013 04:08 PM
papwalker
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrypticLifeStyle View Post
After that article i'm almost convinced its at least one highly suspicious culprit, but i do agree with some other arguments too. It's such a mystery still which i find odd.
Yes I read that article.
[/I]It would be interesting to see pathology comparisons between FW and SW cases.
It's a bit like the substrate and barbel erosion issue with Corydoras.
[/COLOR]
03-14-2013 03:48 PM
CrypticLifeStyle Well my experience with carbon was the tanks i ran with carbon years ago the fish seemed to get hith, and the tanks i didnt never got it. A lot being the same species. All the tanks were on the same maintenance schedule, same water, all CA/SA species. I never use buffers.

At the time i had a really big batch of tapajos redhead juvies. Half the batch got hith, and split tail. I ran a lot of carbon on that tank. Uncle Ned from Uncle neds fish factory came over, and pointed it out, and explained there was a lot of discussion going on about carbon dust being the culprit. Since that day years ago i havnt ran carbon on any tank period. Never had a case of hith again.

I know a study proved carbon was the case in a saltwater fish study, but there's argument against that study for freshwater fish, cause they were salt water.
http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/cont...king-gun-found

After that article i'm almost convinced its at least one highly suspicious culprit, but i do agree with some other arguments too. It's such a mystery still which i find odd.

I also read carbon removes vitamins, and trace irons, and other minerals from the tank water too which could be a combo factor as well :-??
03-14-2013 03:18 PM
papwalker
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrypticLifeStyle View Post
That print is so out dated though, 1994. Back then they thought it was parasite related, now they arnt so sure. There's a little list of suspect causes. I've always been a fan of the carbon argument as i've seen this in real life, and the difference of using it and not using it, and most reputable shops wont use carbon.
So what's the definitive mechanism with carbon?
You can find anecdotal evidence where the disease developed without carbon.
You can find anecdotal evidence where the disease developed without hexamita.
The only thing I could sniff out as the common mechanism might be loss of factors caused by their adsorption in carbon or obstruction by the parasite.
There is also a school of thought that believes it is a factor of the quality of the carbon (phosphate leaching), yet others point out that phosphate buffers are often used with no ill effects.
It may be that the use of carbon make the fish susceptible to hexamitiasis.
I guess until this directly affects aquaculture it will be unfunded and remain controversial.
03-14-2013 02:31 PM
CrypticLifeStyle That print is so out dated though, 1994. Back then they thought it was parasite related, now they arnt so sure. There's a little list of suspect causes. I've always been a fan of the carbon argument as i've seen this in real life, and the difference of using it and not using it, and most reputable shops wont use carbon.
03-14-2013 03:27 AM
papwalker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Option View Post
Hole-in-head disease.....that is the worst. Almost every oscar I've ever had as a child always contracted this. Regardless of how clean I kept the water....it always reared it's ugly head (pun intended) once the oscar reached 6-inches or so in length.
see what you think...
http://www.extension.org/mediawiki/f...l_cichlids.pdf
03-13-2013 11:53 PM
Option Hole-in-head disease.....that is the worst. Almost every oscar I've ever had as a child always contracted this. Regardless of how clean I kept the water....it always reared it's ugly head (pun intended) once the oscar reached 6-inches or so in length.
03-13-2013 11:40 PM
OVT
Re: Wild caught or farmed.

What? No STD?


via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2
03-13-2013 11:34 PM
lochaber The combination of cooking our food, and having access to clean water, and having waste disposed of in a sanitary manner does wonders for cutting down on parasites and disease.

Even so, there are probably many more parasites in/on you then you realize. Most of them are relatively harmless and difficult to notice, like those mites that live in most people's eyelash follicles.


Just for fun, give these a google image search:

loa loa
dracunculus
bot fly



Anyways, yeah, having good water conditions does wonders, but also just having some control over the tank and food cuts out a lot of parasite vectors.
03-13-2013 07:10 AM
Snowflake311
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamprice271 View Post
Not surprising at all really. Parasites and disease is everywhere... The point of keeping up with water changes, and a good diet is to keep the fish healthy enough to fight off the parasites. It's like if you go to a mall and test 200 people, you will probably find millions of germs, and what not on them. By keeping healthy and eating right, your body fights off any attempts for them to bring you down. Same rules really...

Adam
So true . A healthy fish kept in a clean environment can fight off a lot. We under estimate how thought our fish really are.
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