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Topic Review (Newest First)
05-09-2013 12:59 PM
DogFish In my tanks I do not "face" the front & sides with sand. You can observed the Dirt & Sand layers as you view the tank. You can see the dirt, a extremely thin/fine layer of sand and the the sand cap. From tine to time a bit of dirt may be pulled if I pull a plant or there might be fish waste in a corner. You can actually see the dirt or waste travel down through the cap as it seeks it's level.
05-09-2013 12:51 PM
Jnad Yes i think my nest tank also will have soil substrate, but i just have not decided what to use as cap yet. My only consern with sand as cap over the long run is that i am not sure if fish food and other stuff will reatch through to the soil to ceep it fertilized. I think that maybe is why Diana Walstad use gravel as cap, i really like sand though, nice and natural to look at and easy to plant in. My plants seems to love sand too, my grass have runners all over the substrate.

Jnad
05-07-2013 01:44 AM
DogFish
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jnad View Post
So, if 3 inches of sand gives a DSB that work, is 2 inches of dirt and 1 inch of sand cap also function as a DSB??

What do you think?

Jnad
I think Dirt & Sand are better as the dirt is full of nutrients the plants can use. It's more natural. You don't find many plants growing in only sand.
05-06-2013 07:52 PM
Jnad So, if 3 inches of sand gives a DSB that work, is 2 inches of dirt and 1 inch of sand cap also function as a DSB??

What do you think?

Jnad
05-05-2013 02:18 PM
DogFish I'm not seeing the benefit of going deeper than 2" of Dirt & 1-1.5" of sand cap?

I pulled these out of my 40B a while ago:


In just 3" of substrate (MTS/Sand cap) I had good root growth but not root bound plants. Excessive root growth is due to plants searching out nutrients. I've noticed in m Aquaponic Gardening the roots are never as large as they are on the same plants in my outdoor garden (dirt). I attribute that to less work in need by the plant to get nutrients in the Hydroponic grow bed.
05-05-2013 02:05 PM
wkndracer Absolutely possible.

All thick substrates have the same processes at play once established.
Adding the soils and organics simply aids in supporting rooted plants. The same concerns about disturbing the base are there DSM or NPT. Routine gravel vacuuming beyond removing loose waste or leaf litter isn't a good idea with either one.
05-05-2013 01:33 PM
Jnad Could it be possible to do a DSB with dirt/soil?

I do think Big Tom has a very thick layer of substrate in his great tank, he has mixed soil and sand 50/50 and then capped with plain sand. Maybe he actually running a DSB with dirt.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=150555

Jnad
05-05-2013 12:10 PM
wkndracer Great thread!
There are a number of parallels shared between NPT (dirt tanking) and DSB.
Thinking though that having a planted aquarium the nitrate handling component of the DSB is only of minor consideration. Without organic content the DSB doesn't contribute the same support for plants.

With regards to water circulation (imo) a little goes a long way and is always a good thing.
05-05-2013 06:45 AM
Jnad At first i also thought 3 inches was to little, but there is folks saying it works like a charm. Here is some more reading
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums...Sand-Beds-Work

I would use minimum 3 inches in front and slope it up to minimum 5 inches in the back.

This approach also like dirt looks like a natural way to go for those with that interest. There will be less of a mess when moving plants, but i see they recomend to cut the roots and leave them in the DSB to rot when moving or taking plants out of the tank. The dying roots is good for the DSB

Jnad
05-05-2013 03:36 AM
DogFish
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jnad View Post
.....When it comes to dirt substrate i really like this approatch and will continue to run dirt tanks, but i also am reading with interest about DSB in freshwater tanks and would really like to try one tank with DSB substrate also. Not many aquarists running a DSB, but here is a link:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume...e_7_1/dsb.html

Jnad
From your link ~ "1. Fill the aquarium with approximately 3 inches of good sand - pool filter sand, specialized horse racetrack sand, and other meshed sands are good choices."

I'm confused??? I would think Deep Sand Bed might be deeper? Many of us using Dirt in our tank use 2" of Dirt and 1"+ of sand as a cap. I don't feel that is really deep.
05-04-2013 04:44 PM
Jnad Tanks for the tip about the air lift tube, just now i am using a power head for water movment. But for some reason, i dont now really why, but i like air in my tank, and i have a really silent air pump so i probably will try an air lift tube.

When it comes to dirt substrate i really like this approatch and will continue to run dirt tanks, but i also am reading with interest about DSB in freshwater tanks and would really like to try one tank with DSB substrate also. Not many aquarists running a DSB, but here is a link:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume...e_7_1/dsb.html

Jnad

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogFish View Post
I'm very happy to see you decided to follow through on your plans to work with organic substrates. Of course I am very biased on this topic. :big grin:

I would tell you the benefits of water movement will greater than the loss of CO2. Most of our plants come from water that has movement, there is even thermal current movement in ponds.

One away to use the air stone to lesson the surface agitation, hence lessening the CO2 drive off would be an Air Lift tube. Here's a video that shows the idea on a larger scale in a German(?) pond.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkPUQlt0iSw

In your tank a simple PVC(Plastic) straight pipe and a elbow(45degree) pipe will create the same effect. By mounting it below the surface you will gets flow with lower surface agitation.

I use PAR38 LED lights too and it is amazing how high they need to be for correct lighting.

Best of Luck with this project, I look forward to seeing your results.
05-04-2013 01:19 PM
DogFish I'm very happy to see you decided to follow through on your plans to work with organic substrates. Of course I am very biased on this topic.


I would tell you the benefits of water movement will greater than the loss of CO2. Most of our plants come from water that has movement, there is even thermal current movement in ponds.

One away to use the air stone to lesson the surface agitation, hence lessening the CO2 drive off would be an Air Lift tube. Here's a video that shows the idea on a larger scale in a German(?) pond.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkPUQlt0iSw

In your tank a simple PVC(Plastic) straight pipe and a elbow(45degree) pipe will create the same effect. By mounting it below the surface you will gets flow with lower surface agitation.

I use PAR38 LED lights too and it is amazing how high they need to be for correct lighting.

Best of Luck with this project, I look forward to seeing your results.
05-04-2013 08:07 AM
Jnad Hello!

I was also suprised about these led bulbs. I am using the same type of bulbs in a fixture i made over this tank and i am very satisfied.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...946&highlight=

I also have been into reef tanks, and this is a very interesting tread about GU10 led bulbs used sucsessfully over a reef tank
http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/26743...e-ebay-lights/

I think these bulbs with the right color could be a good alternative to planted tanks.

Jnad
05-03-2013 11:03 PM
mc1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by In.a.Box View Post
Wow the light is pretty high up yet still giving the plant so much light.
Lol that's the first thing I noticed, and without a reflector too!
02-23-2013 09:12 AM
Jnad Hello!

Here is some uppdate of tank number 1. with soil number 1. This is the tank with soil containing 30% cow manure:

The tank have been running for 5 days and today i have done some measures of the water.
Ammonium: 0,0 / no measureble readings
GH: 4,0 / the same as my tapwater.

I am not using a filter, just a bubbler to get some water movement. The water is still cristal clear.

I am not going to have fish in this little tank, only some shrimps that will arrive in about one week.

It looks like the plants have started to grow, but since there is no feeding to this tank do you think i should add some fertilizers? Or just relay on the soil/cow manure and just let the tank be with light and some water movement?

I appriciate any comments

Jnad
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