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Thread: Ridiculously high ammonis, fish acting fine, new test kit..whats going on?! Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-02-2013 04:57 AM
happi
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyzzaRyzz View Post
The tank is doing well, the ammonia leve is about 1.5ppm, much better in my eyes, seeing as though the fish act as though its not even there! They are playing and swiming, eating and shoaling. =]
My tank is low tech, and has no CO2, and is regularly at 6.4 ph. My tap water is 6.4, too, so water changes shouldent affect the ph level. Right?
And if thats right, then leaving the osmocote in the tank til it depletes itself, shouldent be a problem.

What i dont get is that so many people use this as a fert, and dont have problems. What makes it a problem, or not a problem?
people overdose it, it might looks small amount when you are adding it, but that small amount can be quite big. people have problem overdosing it, not covering it with least 2-3" of substrate, sand substrate covers it better than gravel based substrate, it leaches out of gravel based substrate, in most cases it comes up. you should not have any problem if you are keep on chaing the water and keep up with the lower PH. are you dosing any fertilizer in this tank? if you are dosing any Nitrogen then i would not dose that for now.
02-02-2013 04:48 AM
LyzzaRyzz The tank is doing well, the ammonia leve is about 1.5ppm, much better in my eyes, seeing as though the fish act as though its not even there! They are playing and swiming, eating and shoaling. =]
My tank is low tech, and has no CO2, and is regularly at 6.4 ph. My tap water is 6.4, too, so water changes shouldent affect the ph level. Right?
And if thats right, then leaving the osmocote in the tank til it depletes itself, shouldent be a problem.

What i dont get is that so many people use this as a fert, and dont have problems. What makes it a problem, or not a problem?
01-31-2013 05:05 PM
aokashi
Ridiculously high ammonis, fish acting fine, new test kit..whats going on?!

oh and... you can also invest in a water hyacinth.
01-31-2013 04:13 PM
happi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulhu View Post
Plants will also consume NH4, but I have no idea how much and how long it would take to bring it down to a safe level.
IME high tech tank full of plants use 0.50ppm of NH4 everyday, this is based on what my tank used.
01-31-2013 03:39 PM
somewhatshocked Yes. Way too much.

I use one or two for maybe every square foot of substrate.

OP: Doesn't matter if you disturb your substrate or not, once water hits the osmocote? It all starts to breakdown and become available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSG View Post
Isn't 12 capsules of the stuff too much to add? How long has this tank been running?

If I was to supplement the substrate with gel caps, I would use 3. (Left, Center, Right)

I can't figure out which one is the gourami. Too early in the morning for me.

Any fish with weird bumps, spots gets removed immediately for observation.

Good luck catching the suspect.
01-31-2013 12:38 PM
Cthulhu Plants will also consume NH4, but I have no idea how much and how long it would take to bring it down to a safe level.
01-31-2013 12:08 PM
MSG
Can you post some pictures of these osmocote capsules?

Isn't 12 capsules of the stuff too much to add? How long has this tank been running?

If I was to supplement the substrate with gel caps, I would use 3. (Left, Center, Right)

I can't figure out which one is the gourami. Too early in the morning for me.

Any fish with weird bumps, spots gets removed immediately for observation.

Good luck catching the suspect.
01-31-2013 11:40 AM
aokashi
Ridiculously high ammonis, fish acting fine, new test kit..whats going on?!

lol seems like a bomb waiting to exploded. Ive gotten bettas from 16ppm Ammoniafied water. he was still alive>.>
01-31-2013 11:03 AM
DarkCobra Forget about ammonia/ammonium/ions/whatnot for now. It's really more information than you need in practice. I'll simplify this for you, let's just all call it ALL ammonia.

At pH under 7, ammonia is essentially non-toxic. At ph over 7, ammonia becomes incredibly toxic.

Chloramines are chlorine and ammonia combined. Water conditioners that handle chloramines force ammonia into the non-toxic form, and they do this regardless of pH. But this is usually only temporary, lasting one or two days; during which time they expect your biofilter will have had ample time to remove the ammonia that came in with the water change. They are not a long term solution for large amounts of ammonia.

If you have high ammonia levels and low pH, then you're in a very tricky spot. Because if anything you do raises the pH past 7, then all that ammonia becomes toxic. And ironically, many of the things one might try to help will actually make things worse.

For example, if you have a lot of CO2 in your water, adding an airstone will drive off the CO2 and raise your pH.

Or if you perform a 50% water change, you've reduced your ammonia from 8ppm to 4ppm, which seems like a good thing. But if the water change also raises pH enough, then you have 4ppm of toxic ammonia on your hands instead of 8ppm of non-toxic ammonia. Of course, water conditioner will temporarily detoxify some of this, but it may exceed what a normal dose will handle, and it may not be obvious how much you need to add to handle it all. And if your pH doesn't go back down sufficiently before the temporary detoxification wears off, you're in trouble.

I would first remove the source of the excessive ammonia, which I agree is the Osmocote caps. Scoop them right out, including the surrounding gravel, so that you disturb the caps as little as possible in the tank. The caps and Osmocote can then be separated, the gravel rinsed and returned to the tank.

Then start gradually reducing the ammonia in the water through a series of small water changes, keeping an eye on your pH at all times.

Not much fun. But it's the only way, unless you absolutely commit to keeping your tank pH below 7 at all times for the many months it takes for the Osmocote to wear out enough that the biofilter can finally keep up. Which I consider to be a severe restriction. What if you need to medicate the tank, with something that requires 50% water changes? Accidentally overdrain the tank with a Python water changer? Or any other unanticipated circumstance? Better to solve the problem than to have it covered up, in my opinion.

Hope this helps.
01-31-2013 05:57 AM
LyzzaRyzz Also, just added an air stone to the tank, and the water immedietly starting bubbling..like suds....
01-31-2013 05:34 AM
LyzzaRyzz As for the osmocote, i added 12 capsules, three rows of four, along the glass before i added the gravel.
I wish i could just hand this over to someone who knows their ammonia stuff, but my poor tank is stuck with just me dealing with it.
Im about to do a 50% wc, on top of the 20% i just did. Ill test after that.
I am utterly exhausted by this...
01-31-2013 05:19 AM
LyzzaRyzz Oh my jesus. my head hurts.
Okay, so ive read all the articles/ threads you guys linked. I think i understand what the difference between ammonia and ammonium is ,a nd some of the ways it can be changed. Some water conditioners do, ammocarb/ammolock change ammonia, being at a low PH can change ammonia to ammonium, and various other reasons.
Osmocote could be a reason, but i havent moved the substrate much since i put them in, and they were on the bottom glass. none of the capsules have been uncovered. In my 50 gallon, there are some uncovered pellets, and i have no ammonia in that tank.
Im confused on what is causing my ammonia to be turned to ammonium, when about a week ago, i was registering actual ammonia.

water changes should clear up this problem correct?
Should i squeeze my filter media from another tank into this one? the bacteria should help 'eat' the ammonium, right?
01-31-2013 05:00 AM
happi your osmocte is the main reason for those high readings, it happened to me once and looks likt it got you this time, read my thread for more details.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=122085
01-31-2013 04:56 AM
Cthulhu Take a look at this
http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Ammonia

A pH below 7 means there are more H+ ions than OH-.
So when water is acid and already has lots of H+, extra H will tend to stay attached to NH4+.
When water has less H+ than OH-, H will detach from NH4+ and there will be more NH3.
01-31-2013 04:54 AM
LyzzaRyzz My PH is the same in all of my tanks, and they are all readying 0 ammonia. so why is this tank different?
There are alot of plants in my tank, so they should be taking in the NH4, right? Then why are they levels still so high?
I do not plan on messing with my ph, or kh and gh. I dont need another thing to worry about!
My question is, why was i getting readings for .25 and .50 when i had MGO and now with gravel im suddenly having ammonium?
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