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Thread: Need help understanding sump filtration please Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-01-2013 05:44 AM
kwheeler91 thanks for the info. When i get around to actually building this monster, everything is going to be big. It will likely be in the 500-1000 gallon range, so the pipes are gonna be huge. Not worried about co2 since it wont be a planted tank, persay. Maybe some willow moss since its native to Ohio, but any other vegetation will be strictly riparian. The goal is to put a slice of central ohio streams right in the wall of my home. The best part is i get to catch all the fish.

It may seem a little far fetched but this is my dream tank and really my only hobby that costs me money besides fishin' lol. I love our native fish and love catching them. even if i cant keep them right now, snorkeling in rivers with nets all day is a blast and something i do every summer Gonna be a long time before it can be achieved but when it does.... its gonna be EPIC.
01-31-2013 05:49 PM
HD Blazingwolf FOR PIECE OF MIND

i've been doing some research myself

do NOT be fooled into thinking a 1 inch drain line is enough. OVERSIZE
look up. myth of the one inch beats on google
and also bulkhead flow rates
wetwebmedia has some good writeups. AND i've found they are true. my overflow is sooooo much louder on my 75 gallon UNTIL i get the flow rates down to around the 300 gph range. same as my 29 gallon
this can be done with ball valve or by swapping pumps..
not only that but its killing my co2 consumption
so ima shoot for a 1.5 inch drain which should allow for a safe gravity siphon, with low noise, and less air actually being forced into my sump.. should result in less co2 loss, less, noise, and the same oxygenation benefits

i throttled back the 29 about 50 gph so that the line doesn't suck in tons of air, my co2 consumption dropped in HALF so, when ur building. GO BIG ON DRAIN LINES
01-31-2013 05:39 PM
kwheeler91 Yeah I think thats what he meant. If using a diy overflow the T off the rise of the low U would be where the high U is in that pic.

After looking at the various styles of overflow, I think beananimal's provides the most peace of mind and would probably work for what im trying to achieve. The overflow wouldnt be very large and could be easily disguised or just framed out of sight if the tank ends up being in wall. A small price to pay for keeping a couple hundred gallons of water off the floor. As long as the tank isnt too tall, I could use a Calflo style overflow, but have it spanning the width instead of the length. The tank will likely be 72x30x18? Not sure on height yet but it wont be extremely deep and that much width should give a good amount of pull. I could always design the interior to have a lower flow area like a pool on that side. I know thats a complete 360 from the original idea but it will be a lot safer and probably easier. Not too mention quiet.

Guess I should have listened to blazingwolf in the first place lol
01-31-2013 06:12 AM
lochaber
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD Blazingwolf View Post
this defeats the purpose of the siphon break he is trying to install

but yes u still have to have a priming method,, i actually have two aqualifters.. one on a 29 gallon, one on a 75 gallon. they are fine as long as u use the prefilter AND check weekly for snaills, or debris cloging input/ output holes. if my overflow has bubbles accumulating, its because a baby snail crawled down the airtube and got stuck at the barb for the prefilter. a toothpick fixes this
Ha! - thanx, that wasn't something I had considered, so I'll keep that in mind if I ever do use them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by HD Blazingwolf View Post
possibly,
check this picture and see if i am understanding what ur trying to do
-You might want to have a similar raised portion for the return, to prevent water back flowing and draining the tank (or use a check valve, or something similar)
01-30-2013 01:41 PM
HD Blazingwolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwheeler91 View Post
A monsterfishkeeper member said that I could use a bulk head and simply raise the T leading to the sump at the desired water level and it wouldnt drain any farther than the T. Doesnt sound right to ne but would that work?
possibly,
check this picture and see if i am understanding what ur trying to do
01-30-2013 01:22 PM
HD Blazingwolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by lochaber View Post
I don't have any personal experience with sumps, but I'm planning on using one with my next setup, and have been reading around a bit.

One thing I've seen is that people hook up the venturi from a powerhead to the top of the siphon, or use some sort of low flow-rate peristaltic pump (I've heard 'aqualifter' mentioned fairly often, but the reviews I've read of it aren't too hot...).

This serves two purposes, to eliminate bubble/gas accumulation in the siphon, and also to help prime the siphon after a power failure.
-power fails, pumps shut off, water drains below hole for siphon break, siphon breaks, excess water drains into sump, everything stops, no flooding, etc.
-power comes back on. the pumps start again, but have little/no water available due to overflows/etc, aqualifter/venturi starts pumping the air out of the broken siphon and priming it, once siphon is primed, waterflow returns to normal and the system can effectively self restart.

I'm not sure if there will be much of a problem with the pump potentially running dry until the siphon is primed again, but it seems this plan is fairly common, so I imagine someone has some experience with it.
this defeats the purpose of the siphon break he is trying to install

but yes u still have to have a priming method,, i actually have two aqualifters.. one on a 29 gallon, one on a 75 gallon. they are fine as long as u use the prefilter AND check weekly for snaills, or debris cloging input/ output holes. if my overflow has bubbles accumulating, its because a baby snail crawled down the airtube and got stuck at the barb for the prefilter. a toothpick fixes this
01-30-2013 07:33 AM
lochaber
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD Blazingwolf View Post
What happens when the power turns back on? How will the system prime itself?

I don't have any personal experience with sumps, but I'm planning on using one with my next setup, and have been reading around a bit.

One thing I've seen is that people hook up the venturi from a powerhead to the top of the siphon, or use some sort of low flow-rate peristaltic pump (I've heard 'aqualifter' mentioned fairly often, but the reviews I've read of it aren't too hot...).

This serves two purposes, to eliminate bubble/gas accumulation in the siphon, and also to help prime the siphon after a power failure.
-power fails, pumps shut off, water drains below hole for siphon break, siphon breaks, excess water drains into sump, everything stops, no flooding, etc.
-power comes back on. the pumps start again, but have little/no water available due to overflows/etc, aqualifter/venturi starts pumping the air out of the broken siphon and priming it, once siphon is primed, waterflow returns to normal and the system can effectively self restart.

I'm not sure if there will be much of a problem with the pump potentially running dry until the siphon is primed again, but it seems this plan is fairly common, so I imagine someone has some experience with it.
01-30-2013 05:08 AM
jamesjkl It is a closed loop not conected to the sump at all. Drains on one end going straight to a pump and discharge on the other velosity set by the pump and valve.


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01-30-2013 04:46 AM
kwheeler91 A monsterfishkeeper member said that I could use a bulk head and simply raise the T leading to the sump at the desired water level and it wouldnt drain any farther than the T. Doesnt sound right to ne but would that work?
01-30-2013 01:56 AM
HD Blazingwolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwheeler91 View Post
maybe my terminology is wrong, but a check valve stuck in the intake or just a hole just below the surface to suck in air once the water level drops below it. would the air not break the siphon?
What happens when the power turns back on? How will the system prime itself?
01-30-2013 12:44 AM
kwheeler91
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD Blazingwolf View Post
It will not.. for it to drain, the valve will have to be open, so in the event of power loss, it will continue to drain until the siphon is broken
maybe my terminology is wrong, but a check valve stuck in the intake or just a hole just below the surface to suck in air once the water level drops below it. would the air not break the siphon?
01-29-2013 11:19 PM
l8nite
Quote:
Originally Posted by UDGags View Post
BeanAnimal is the best setup.
I've been researching sumps lately too, and this feels like the best design so far.
01-29-2013 11:05 PM
HD Blazingwolf It will not.. for it to drain, the valve will have to be open, so in the event of power loss, it will continue to drain until the siphon is broken
01-29-2013 10:09 PM
kwheeler91 I guess i would just have to experiment with intake heights and see if the higher mount is acceptable.

I know not all the species like super fast current, but i intend on designing the tank to accomodate for a few different type of habitat. There will be a riffles section and also pool areas that will have shelter the water will have to flow over and around, i just want to make sure the current hasnt died out by the time it surpasses all obstacles.

I may be worrying to much, but i really do want mupltiple drain heights.

Anyone know if the one way valve on the intake would work?
01-29-2013 08:05 PM
HD Blazingwolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD Blazingwolf View Post
Why not have the return on the bottom and the drain up high,, ull still get a current effect and on return lines u can just install a one way valve
im still voting this way.. you'll have a lot of one directional current and will be safe

and u cna still setup the sump to have fresh water brought in, at any rate you like

i understand streams have decent water movement, but have u ever gauged what that speed is? its actually not that fast, the problem with streams and what makes them seem so fast is the VOLUME of water.. that's what gievs it that pulling feeling

also not, most fish that inhabit these streams have huge rocks or roots to hide behind to allow their bodies to rest, your flow is going to get bounced around a little, no matter how you go about it
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