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Thread: Good idea for a diy stand? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-28-2013 06:29 PM
GraphicGr8s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo View Post
No, it was plain old framing material with one coat of redwood stain and no sealer.
How did it not rot out or get eaten by bugs? Stain doesn't really protect from bugs. Or weather. Or much of anything.
01-28-2013 03:37 PM
scapegoat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo View Post
I would not use masonite or MDF for an aquarium. No matter how well you think you've sealed it, sooner or later water is going to get at it and it will swell and then start to come apart.
while that is a concern. others have used masonite. I don't see a reason to completely ignore it as an option. I'm sure if you want you could easily cover it with a few layers of varnish or paint, or even drylok if you want to go that far.

Though, I'd much rather prefer a G1S graded plywood if it'll be visible though.
01-28-2013 03:00 PM
Sluggo
Quote:
Originally Posted by scapegoat View Post
use plywood graded with one side for staining. you'll get the finished top and you won't run into warping. or masonite and veneer
I would not use masonite or MDF for an aquarium. No matter how well you think you've sealed it, sooner or later water is going to get at it and it will swell and then start to come apart.
01-28-2013 02:57 PM
Sluggo
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraphicGr8s View Post
Was it pressure treated lumber? Because it sure wasn't the joinery that kept it from cupping.
No, it was plain old framing material with one coat of redwood stain and no sealer.

Quote:
But have you ever noticed that a solid wood top on a table (like a dining room table) is never glued down. And in fact the screws that attach it are in elongated holes? Or in clips in grooves? That's to account for wood movement.
Yes, but he is not building anything as big as a dining room table. It's only 16" wide. I have never seen a coffee table, or a curio table, or a desk, or anything that size with a floating top.
01-28-2013 02:42 PM
scapegoat use plywood graded with one side for staining. you'll get the finished top and you won't run into warping. or masonite and veneer
01-28-2013 02:25 PM
GraphicGr8s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo View Post
People use glue, pocket joinery, and straps all the time to make box lids, table tops, simple barn-style doors, whatever, without any breadboard edges. My picnic table sat out in the yard for ten years, and none of the boards ever warped or cupped.

evilhorde, IMO you are overthinking it a little. Unless your lumber is not all the way dried for some reason, you should not develop any spots that would be high enough to be fatal to the tank.
Was it pressure treated lumber? Because it sure wasn't the joinery that kept it from cupping. And it's not a "new" problem. It's been happening ever since people made stuff from wood.

I never said that everything needed breadboard edges. It is however a tried and true technique to hide wood movement. There are others of course.
And in some places you don't need to hide the problem. Like on a picnic table. Or barn doors. But have you ever noticed that a solid wood top on a table (like a dining room table) is never glued down. And in fact the screws that attach it are in elongated holes? Or in clips in grooves? That's to account for wood movement.
Dry wood to start is great. But it needs to be acclimated before the first cut is made. And it should be acclimated again after the last is made before it's glued up. Especially if it's been face planed.

If a piece is kept in a home with a relatively consistent moisture level than any warping would be minimal any way.
01-28-2013 04:54 AM
Sluggo People use glue, pocket joinery, and straps all the time to make box lids, table tops, simple barn-style doors, whatever, without any breadboard edges. My picnic table sat out in the yard for ten years, and none of the boards ever warped or cupped.

evilhorde, IMO you are overthinking it a little. Unless your lumber is not all the way dried for some reason, you should not develop any spots that would be high enough to be fatal to the tank.
01-28-2013 01:57 AM
GraphicGr8s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluggo View Post
There are plenty of options. Gluing the 2x6s together at the edges is one way to go. You can use dowels/pegs to join them at the edges, or use pocket joinery, in conjunction with the glue. Probably the simplest thing would be to strap the 2x6s together from the underside with pieces of 1x3 strapping used for hanging drywall on ceilings.

I agree that you should have some kind of bracing on the back. Maybe not a full "X," but just some corner bracing cut from 2x4s.
None of these techniques will stop warping. Glueing, screwing or doweling will never stop a board from warping. Strapping won't really help either. All wood moves. You can't stop it. You can however minimize the problems. First is to understand wood movement. It will move accross grain more than with grain. In other words the 6" will shrink and expand more than the 8'. In a tabletop you glue up the panel and use a breadboard edge to hide the movement. It is only glued in the very middle of the breadboard edge and it is pinned with wood dowels or pegs on the ends. Another way to minimize the effect is to look at how it is milled. Construction grade lumber is plain sawn. There is also rift sawn but the method of sawing with the least movement is quartersawn. It's also the most expensive wood because of the waste.
Joining the boards to make a single width. With construction grade lumber more than likely you will see the grain curve around the end. It will warp towards the center of the tree. Join the boards with all the rings in the same direction and it warps in a circle. Alternate them and it warps like a wave.
That wood warps is why you never see a paneled door with the panel glued to the stiles and rails. They float in the grove. Glued together it could split the door or you'd see cracks where the boards were glued together. It's also why craftsmen use plywood with a solid wood edging. People talk about plywood cabinets, etc. being lower quality but in reality are the better made.
One way to minimize warp is to seal all six sides in polyurethane. It is a solid coating and minimizes moisture changes in wood. Won't eliminate them but slows it down.
01-27-2013 05:50 PM
golfer_d I am doing this one as well only I am going to make it half the size (I am only putting a 10 gallon on it).
01-27-2013 05:24 PM
Sluggo
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilhorde View Post
I like the look of the 2x6 top but I am a tad concerned about the boards curling up a bit and ruining my perfectly flat top.
What if I put a piece of 1/2 or 3/4 plywood under the 2x6's and glued/screwed them together? That should keep the 2x6's flat shouldn't it?
Or at least keep them from warping any more than they are when I buy them. I can run a sander over the top before staining to achieve a 'flat now' suface but I wonder if it will warp up the first day it doesn't have a full tank on top of it.
This concern about warping is probably just paranoia on my part but I like to cover all the bases before I cut once.
There are plenty of options. Gluing the 2x6s together at the edges is one way to go. You can use dowels/pegs to join them at the edges, or use pocket joinery, in conjunction with the glue. Probably the simplest thing would be to strap the 2x6s together from the underside with pieces of 1x3 strapping used for hanging drywall on ceilings.

I agree that you should have some kind of bracing on the back. Maybe not a full "X," but just some corner bracing cut from 2x4s.
01-27-2013 04:30 PM
evilhorde
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraphicGr8s View Post
If it's a glass tank with a rim the top won't matter a hill of beans. The tank only sits on the edges. Putting a nice piece of plywood will only appease your own mind. The tank won't be resting on any part except the edges.
I like the look of the 2x6 top but I am a tad concerned about the boards curling up a bit and ruining my perfectly flat top.
What if I put a piece of 1/2 or 3/4 plywood under the 2x6's and glued/screwed them together? That should keep the 2x6's flat shouldn't it?
Or at least keep them from warping any more than they are when I buy them. I can run a sander over the top before staining to achieve a 'flat now' suface but I wonder if it will warp up the first day it doesn't have a full tank on top of it.
This concern about warping is probably just paranoia on my part but I like to cover all the bases before I cut once.
01-27-2013 01:24 AM
GraphicGr8s
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelub View Post
Thats a good design to work off of. For a 45 long you shouldn't need extra x-braces in the back. Your biggest concern will be to make absolutely sure the top is flat and level so you don't break any of the seams in your tank. It wouldn't hurt to put a nice piece of plywood on top to provide a flat level surface for the tank to sit on.
If it's a glass tank with a rim the top won't matter a hill of beans. The tank only sits on the edges. Putting a nice piece of plywood will only appease your own mind. The tank won't be resting on any part except the edges. You don't even need a top at all. Just 2 x 3 framework will take care of it just fine. If he doesn't put a skin on it I would wholeheartedly recommend X bracing to help prevent racking. 2 x 4 legs are more than adequate. Don't use pressure treated on any part of it.
01-26-2013 08:05 PM
Diana I would use the middle shelf on only half the unit, and leave the other bay larger, more open for canister filter, CO2 or other large things.

2 x 4 is plenty strong enough. No need to go to 4 x 4 in the corners.

X across the back, or even a sheet of plywood as a shear panel would be a very good idea.

I also would not use the 2 x 6 top, 3/4" plywood would be very strong, or add perhaps 1/2" or thinner plywood on top of the 2 x 6 for a more uniform surface. Even a sheet of Styrofoam might be enough if the top was well made, very uniform.

Most of my stands are 2 x 4 on edge, boxes that exactly fit the bottom rim of the tank. Most of my tanks are glass tanks designed to sit on their rim.
Sit those boxes on concrete blocks. Add 1/2" Styrofoam to even out any irregularities in the wood.
My acrylic tanks are fully supported. I used manufactured stands and sheets of Styrofoam for them.
01-26-2013 07:32 PM
MSG Looks like it will be sufficient, but if you're concerned, you can add corner reinforcement brackets. Or go overboard & use 4x4 fence posts on the 4 corners.

Not sure if you want to leave shelves below completely open, because it wouldn't give you any place to hide the equipment/wires.
01-26-2013 06:54 PM
thelub Thats a good design to work off of. For a 45 long you shouldn't need extra x-braces in the back. Your biggest concern will be to make absolutely sure the top is flat and level so you don't break any of the seams in your tank. It wouldn't hurt to put a nice piece of plywood on top to provide a flat level surface for the tank to sit on.
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