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Topic Review (Newest First)
Today 01:58 AM
V1peR I would like to have the highest light possible using my setup (co2+seachem ferts + dirt substrate)

At the moment i have 2 T5HO bulbs at 16 inches from the substrate.
But i would like to use all of my 4 Bulbs (by raising the lighting unit).
This way I will be able to create different spectrums using different kelvin tubes (was think of 1 3000k, 1 4000 kelvin and 2 6500 kelvin)

How much should I raise my lighting unit to achieve this "high" light with 4 T5HO?
03-28-2015 01:46 PM
jeffkrol [QUOTE=Raymond S.;7643233][QUOTE=jeffkrol;7642873]LUX is a subset of PAR..Arguably over sampling in bandwiths that are underutilized by plants..

White paint w/ barium sulfate added is the most economical reflective surface w/ little absorption in any wavelength.

Thank you for this...

But on this one...
Unfortunately few manufacturers have spectrum charts/w their bulbs.
But Zoo Med does and sometimes Coralife does.
Not really concerned/w different lots of same bulb. Just under the impression that the red part of the spectrum is essential/critical to plant growth and just noticed that the Zoo Med Ultra sun has little/none of it.
Compare their chart for the Flora and the Ultra sun bulbs. For years I have known that the Flora grows plants very well. But it has poor at best visible light. So using an Ultra sun for a main light so I can see in my tank and
a Flora for the second,shorter photo period bulb is not the best option in my mind as plant growth goes, yet best for visibility in the tank.
Perhaps I'm overly apprehensive about the lack of red in the Ultra sun.

"You have littel control over say, different lots of the same bulb. Theoretically it would be a lot less a problem than say different brand 6500k bulbs..."[quote]

Over time I've painstakingly softened my approach on red per se..
Looking at it this way:
for shallow water plants red is an integral component of "natural" light. BUT that doesn't mean it is "perfect" only it is what they are used to dealing with.
so the whole red thing gets complicated.

What is fairly known is that high blue w/ little red has the ability to change a plants morphology.. i.e stunt or stretch, bigger leaves or smaller. It also has an ability to change pigment contents.. high blue more xanthrophylls ect (more red pigments) but without red light you don't "see" them as well.

Bottom line red is probably more crucial to a balanced "look" plant wise and human vision wise then it is to plant survival and growth.

Thinking about nature.. if you go to a clearwater lake and look 10ft down and see plants, they see little to no red. But what else do you see, maybe one plant variety or 2.. The ones that can "survive" without red.. Would they be happier in shallow water? More than likely..
Would they grow better and slightly different w/ more red.. Probably..




03-28-2015 09:24 AM
Raymond S. [QUOTE=jeffkrol;7642873]LUX is a subset of PAR..Arguably over sampling in bandwiths that are underutilized by plants..

White paint w/ barium sulfate added is the most economical reflective surface w/ little absorption in any wavelength.

Thank you for this...

But on this one...
Unfortunately few manufacturers have spectrum charts/w their bulbs.
But Zoo Med does and sometimes Coralife does.
Not really concerned/w different lots of same bulb. Just under the impression that the red part of the spectrum is essential/critical to plant growth and just noticed that the Zoo Med Ultra sun has little/none of it.
Compare their chart for the Flora and the Ultra sun bulbs. For years I have known that the Flora grows plants very well. But it has poor at best visible light. So using an Ultra sun for a main light so I can see in my tank and
a Flora for the second,shorter photo period bulb is not the best option in my mind as plant growth goes, yet best for visibility in the tank.
Perhaps I'm overly apprehensive about the lack of red in the Ultra sun.

"You have littel control over say, different lots of the same bulb. Theoretically it would be a lot less a problem than say different brand 6500k bulbs..."[QUOTE]
03-28-2015 08:50 AM
Filet-O-Fish
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
Not all reflectors are the same. The very good ones will show you at least one full image of the bulb on each side of the bulb when you look up at the light. That almost triples the amount of light the bulb emits, since each reflection is almost the same as another bulb. But, poor reflectors have only a small effect on how much light the bulb provides. You need to look at the pictures of typical reflectors in the first post here and see how yours fits in. If it is a very good one you probably will get about 50 PAR at 25 inches. That would be medium light. If that's what you want, then two bulbs should be all you need.

Hi Hoppy,
Thanks for your reply. Its good to know I have 50+- PAR which would be in the medium light range. Just to reconfirm, I'm using 4pcs of T5HOs now with a lighting period of 6 hours. So this 50 PAR is from 4pcs T5HOs right or is it from 6pcs?

I posted a photo of the T5 light set below. The reflects are the exact same type as in the photo ( mirror like finish)

Thank you very much.




Bump:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattinmd View Post
Hmm,

I'd assumed Filet-o-Fish was using an Odyssea fixture, but looking back that's not explicitly stated, just that the bulbs are Odyssea.

Regardless, if they are using an Odyssea brand fixture with Odyssea bulbs, the 35 PAR should be roughly accurate.
Hi Mat

Thanks for your info.
I have posted a photo of the reflectors in the above post.

The light set which is another brand can hold upto 6 T5hos. The LFS where I bought the set from had only Odyssea brand T5s at that moment. Sadly in my country, T5 lights are not carried by many LFSs.

I have noticed that in Odyssea light sets the reflectors are just one long flat piece of shiny metal.
03-28-2015 04:52 AM
jeffkrol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond S. View Post
Hello Hoppy,
I have a T8 fixture which obviously has a very poor reflector. It's on a 10g tank.
Dwarf Sag barely grows/w it, but Water Sprite does well.
I do have a Mom & Pop LFS where I could buy one of those strip lights used.
If I were to paint the inside of it, what color would help best ?
In easy to find spray paint Aluminium/White are common. Might find Silver at
Hobby Lobby.
The first page(my forum parameters limit a page to 20 post)of this thread suggest
to me that if PAR is actually what the plant uses(as opposed to Lux) then each
bulb, by brand and part number of that brand is a different PAR ?
LUX is a subset of PAR..Arguably over sampling in bandwiths that are underutilized by plants..

White paint w/ barium sulfate added is the most economical reflective surface w/ little absorption in any wavelength..
http://www.triticeaecap.org/wp-conte...um_Sulfate.pdf

Quote:
each
bulb, by brand and part number of that brand is a different PAR ?
Generally speaking but less of an issue than poor reflectors or too low drive currents or poor match..

You have littel control over say, different lots of the same bulb. Theoretically it would be a lot less a problem than say different brand 6500k bulbs..
03-28-2015 04:39 AM
Raymond S. Hello Hoppy,
I have a T8 fixture which obviously has a very poor reflector. It's on a 10g tank.
Dwarf Sag barely grows/w it, but Water Sprite does well.
I do have a Mom & Pop LFS where I could buy one of those strip lights used.
If I were to paint the inside of it, what color would help best ?
In easy to find spray paint Aluminium/White are common. Might find Silver at
Hobby Lobby.
The first page(my forum parameters limit a page to 20 post)of this thread suggest
to me that if PAR is actually what the plant uses(as opposed to Lux) then each
bulb, by brand and part number of that brand is a different PAR ?
03-27-2015 04:36 PM
Hoppy Not all reflectors are the same. The very good ones will show you at least one full image of the bulb on each side of the bulb when you look up at the light. That almost triples the amount of light the bulb emits, since each reflection is almost the same as another bulb. But, poor reflectors have only a small effect on how much light the bulb provides. You need to look at the pictures of typical reflectors in the first post here and see how yours fits in. If it is a very good one you probably will get about 50 PAR at 25 inches. That would be medium light. If that's what you want, then two bulbs should be all you need.
03-27-2015 01:51 PM
mattinmd Hmm,

I'd assumed Filet-o-Fish was using an Odyssea fixture, but looking back that's not explicitly stated, just that the bulbs are Odyssea.

Regardless, if they are using an Odyssea brand fixture with Odyssea bulbs, the 35 PAR should be roughly accurate.
03-27-2015 01:01 PM
jeffkrol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filet-O-Fish View Post
Hi Jeff
I'm confused as well.
Understanding PAR is new to me.
Anyway, what is your opinion of my lighting issue?

Is the height of 25 inch from the substrate for a 4 T5HO considered mid or high light?

Thanks

you could have par in the range of 60-90.. considered high-ish..

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=105774
03-27-2015 07:04 AM
Filet-O-Fish
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
I'm confused why youare wondering about the PAR of 2 bulbs.. You have 6.
Hi Jeff
I'm confused as well.
Understanding PAR is new to me.
Anyway, what is your opinion of my lighting issue?

Is the height of 25 inch from the substrate for a 4 T5HO considered mid or high light?

Thanks
03-26-2015 04:07 PM
jeffkrol I'm confused why youare wondering about the PAR of 2 bulbs.. You have 6.
03-26-2015 08:21 AM
Filet-O-Fish Hi Everyone.
This is my first post here.
I have read from the first page till here and all my previous ideas of lighting for a planted had been blown away. I have always thought the WPG was the right way but now I realize that its not any more.

So I have this problem for my planted tank's lighting.

I have just purchased a T5HO light set.
It can hold 6 pieces of 48" T5HO at 54 watts each. I have also bought six Odyssea brand tubes.
4 pcs - 6400K
1 pc - 10000K
1 pc - red plants ( no K reading on tube)

The light set has individual mirror like reflectors for each T5.
The light set comes with 3 light settings:

a. 2 T5s can be switched ON
b. 4 T5S can be switched ON
c. All 6 T5s can be switch ON.

My tank is (H)48" by (W)18" by (H)22"
Volume: 80 gallons
Co2: Injected Co2
Fertilizers: EI dosing

The light set is now on a adjustable hanging stand.
The light is 8" from the top of the tank and 25" from the substrate level.

According to the graph posted by Hoppy, the Odyssea 2 bulb T5HO 36" is only 35 PAR.
Will the PAR be same for my light set at 25 inches from the substrate?

I intend to go for mid to high light tank.

I'm confused on the exact height I should have my light set and would appreciate the tips or advice given.
Thank you very much.



03-24-2015 04:57 PM
jeffkrol
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattinmd View Post

AFAIK, all the numbers that Finnex has published for final products to date have been Apogee numbers. I think it is only the one pre-production Planted+ that got the University involved, because of the 660nm issue.

I could be wrong of course, but that is my general impression.
That is my assumption as well..
03-24-2015 04:55 PM
mattinmd
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
LiCor is university standard for PAR.. I'm sure Finnex didn't want a spectroanalysis
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.230...=4&uid=3739256
Fair enough... didn't realize universities were using that as a standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
Point is "we" don't even know which ones were or were not tested by the Uni..and which were tested by Finnex w/ "their" Apogee
AFAIK, all the numbers that Finnex has published for final products to date have been Apogee numbers. I think it is only the one pre-production Planted+ that got the University involved, because of the 660nm issue.

I could be wrong of course, but that is my general impression.
03-24-2015 04:46 PM
jeffkrol
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattinmd View Post
Technically, it was a university agricultural department, not a contractor.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...57&postcount=4

Being a university lab, I would also suspect they used substantially more advanced equipment than a cheap little LiCor... University labs usually have access to equipment well beyond the $2000 price range, at least if they're at all well funded.

Universities also usually have rules prohibiting staff from helping commercial businesses "on the side", as it eats into sources for research grant money. This is probably why that ended. Of course the university would love to help Finnex if they provided a few hundred thou for a research grant. All in the name of advancing science, of course..
LiCor is university standard for PAR.. I'm sure Finnex didn't want a spectroanalysis
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.230...=4&uid=3739256

Point is "we" don't even know which ones were or were not tested by the Uni..and which were tested by Finnex w/ "their" Apogee
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