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  Topic Review (Newest First)
12-17-2015 06:46 PM
Trigger334 Those printed spectrum are rather misleading anyways. You might be interested in this.

12-17-2015 06:14 PM
jeffkrol THE reason I'm "hung up" on coloredLED's is fairly self explanatory from the above diagram btw:

now this "hang up" is BOTH for visual and plant benefits..

Soon all of this will be pointless as "true" high CRI diodes become more common..
BTW the Yuji uses "purple" as the base emitter not RB or blue..
Out of the 2 images below, which one will have better overall color rendition and cover all photosynthetic pigment peaks relatively even?







High CRI LED Lighting | Yuji LED

see a "one color" emitter I like..

BTW: so much for "secret sauce" 6500k emitters.. See you can teach old dogs new tricks..





NOW if you can get them to use cyan instead of green.. (to start) we'd be getting close to being on the same page..
NOTE: CREE dosn't "do" cyan AFAICT.. but Phillips does..
12-17-2015 05:53 PM
Trigger334 Jeff.

The GroBeam 1000 is not in production anymore. You will want to look at the GroBeam 1500 or Colorplus.

You certainly are set on emitters/spectrum. Fluval is a composite light as well. Meaning they mix white with colors to achieve their overall spectrum. Plus they have so many emitters, they have to be daisy chained together to keep the price low. Meaning the construction is among the poorest. No drivers, more watts, poor dimming method.

If the article was read, someone can see, that while they might get a decent spectrum, the fixture is set to fail in the near feature, which is why the warranty is so short. Dimming 0-10v with this many daisy chained emitters only increases the chances of fixture failure and gets higher and higher with more emitters. Fluval is one with the most emitters on the market. 0-10v applies so much stain to the circuity, more with more emitters, plus when moisture is involved, it's a set-up.

It does have a "moisture guard", I'll give it that, but is not waterproof. Working in the industry, I can't even count how many times people have moisture issues with LEDs. I cannot also count how many times people fixtures have ended up in the water. A IP waterproof rating is much more desirable then a moisture guard.

So, while the spectrum might be nice. If someone can swing it, they are far better off investing in better tech, that will last them longer. Having to replace even one of these fixtures after their short 6mo? warranty, will end up costing you more than a decent BML or AquaRay. I'd recommend a BML over a Fluval.

If even one emitter goes out on the fixture, that will shift the spectrum as well. Really messing with the real growing power of the blues and reds.

Can't remember, these have a fan? That would say something as well.

I can see why you are set on emitters and spectrum. You appear to be a DIY guy? Fun stuff, while you have more spectrum control (which is debatable as to what is best, considering nature as well), that's about all DIY has going for it. Maybe make certain colors pop to the eye. They don't even end up costing less and much more time is involved. With no moisture control and no warranty.

I still recommend people to read the article and learn the facts of an overall great LED.
12-17-2015 03:26 AM
jeffkrol you tell me which one is better..

12-17-2015 01:09 AM
Trigger334 Posting this for others who want to understand what makes a great LED.

Useful article, which goes over the science of what separates the different LEDs on the market.

LED Aquarium Lights,[censored]Lighting; How they work, DIY | Aquarium Article Digest
12-16-2015 11:48 PM
jeffkrol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger334 View Post
You show me a better brand LED out... We can talk more.

Someone that does their homework will see AquaRay to be one of the best aquarium LEDs out.
One that is subjective.. 2) you got to be kidding??

Show me ONE piece of independent data that would support such nonsense...

THER IS NO perfect light.. Kessil as an example; Crappy choice of freshwater specrum spectrum and as cryptic as Aquaray.. All talk w/ no technical backing..

sure they "grow stuff" So will about a thousand candles.. Means nothing actually..


Photons are photons.. NONE are "magical bins"..
That is physics and science, not advertising voodoo..


besides, except for a few chouce LED's "just whites" (of almost any K have GIANT holes their spectrum..
Zero "violets", little cyan and little red above 650nm..

CREE family of whites (any brand is not different by much)





feel free to give me all the Aquaray data you have..

"better brand" is certainly subjective. As a personal choice I'd pick In no particular order), Radions, Reefbreeders, DsunY, Current plus PRO, MANY easy and cheap DIY's, Some t5's, and even a "modified" Beamswork over them..
There are different reasons for each choice..

until you can tell me WHY they are exclusive , don't even bother replying to me.. you are just shilling.. no more no less..
christmas sales down????

tired of fighting w/ reefers????
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hlight=aquaray
12-16-2015 11:18 PM
Trigger334 OK...you're stretching to make points and pulling from resources, which we don't know the credibility or how it even relates to any aquarium LED on the market.

You show me a better brand LED out... We can talk more.

Someone that does their homework will see AquaRay to be one of the best aquarium LEDs out. A LED actually meant to be used over water, plus all the other perks.
12-16-2015 08:52 PM
jeffkrol Me doth think you protest too much.....

For fun;
http://www.mouser.com/pdfdocs/DS158.pdf
max 144lumens/watt..
i'll leave out the fact that 6500k is not "the ideal" color temp either..

just another opinion, not unlike mine..
Quote:
Yes. Bridgelux makes the best high-CRI white LEDs, but they're also ~29v at 700mA (and give over 1700 lumens), so you would need a different driver setup.

Cree makes high output LEDs, but their white LEDs that are readily available from places like RapidLED, LED group buy, etc are all low-CRI parts.

Lumileds chips have the same output as Cree, but their white LEDs are available in 85- and 90CRI versions and give excellent color.
soo "IF" they are using ..say.. high CRI "special CREE bins" then they should say so...
12-16-2015 07:37 PM
jeffkrol That is because I am NOT attacking the light .. only the pointless selling point of "secret sauce" Cree's..
And no CREE has, arguably, but fairly certain, poor spectral performance w/ their white diodes..i.e color shifts off axis as compared to Phillips.. "historically"..

http://cireon.com/case_study/cree-vs.-luxeon
http://cireon.com/pdf/Case_Study,_Cr...ree_LM-79s.pdf


now in all fairness that is "older" CREE's.. I understand that but a bit of real world:



http://www.aeonlighting.com/tw/uploa...1398739749.pdf
12-16-2015 04:55 PM
Trigger334
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
no the point is "exclusive emitters" w/out any FACTS as to why that is "important" is not looking at things half full or empty.. JUST as completely empty of any meaning..

Whether the fixture performs well or not is not an issue at all..

sorry, I work in retail, pretty sensitive to "sizzle w. no steak" statements..

BTW: Luxeons are, arguably, better than CREE's anyways..

Why don't you ask them what is special about them.. be technically specific..

more fluff "true 6500k" emitters..
every decent LED manuf. has a bin w/in the "true 6500k" range..

The picture shows the amount of variation (from spectrum, to efficiency, to voltage characteristics ect.) possible in a single "class" of LED..

you are correct though that manuf. can request a very specific bin. It is good for product consistency. AND one does pay extra for that.

On another note.. CREE outsources a lot of their LED production. not all CREE's are equal..




LED output comparison quick reference (Bridgelux, Cree, Philips) - Reef Central Online Community
You yourself linked to Cree's website, which shows why they're the more advanced LEDs by Cree. They're more high power, with less energy used. Meaning less energy can be used to have the same/better growth. Plus they are meant to be driven harder, without wearing out. Many brands drive the emitters at much less mA to preserve the life of the emitter. Plus they can handle more moisture electrical variances, since we're basically hanging computers over aquariums (all described in the article...)

That's the stake... and still, you're focused on just one point... Even without this point, there's others, which set AquaRay above BML.

No one else is using the xb-d's except for maybe BML (a couple UK brands too), but they don't publish what emitters they use. They just have XB in the fixture title, so it's an assumption.

That aside, most brands, including BML, combine cool white (5500K xbd?), with color emitters to make "6500K". Which is why the statement is made that AquaRay uses true 6500K, because they use just use one type of HO emitter with the 6500K rating. Throughout aquatic history, 6500K has show to have some of the best growth (better than 5500k) and even has additional benefits to aquatic life... That cannot be said for combinations as it's not natural and I don't believe any studies have been done. Plus, placement of the color emitters can have affect on growth under that emitter as well, even though claims are made that colors blend when in water.

About Luxeons, I cannot say. What I do know, the most popular fixtures out are not using them. Maybe you know a brand that's using them though. If there's a fixture with Luxeon 6500Ks, with some more perks to make them comparable to AqauRay...Great. There needs to be more quality LEDs out.
12-15-2015 10:56 PM
jeffkrol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger334 View Post
I suppose if someone is the type that looks at the world as a glass half empty and also doesn't take any of the other information in the article into context, I guess that's a point.

no the point is "exclusive emitters" w/out any FACTS as to why that is "important" is not looking at things half full or empty.. JUST as completely empty of any meaning..

Whether the fixture performs well or not is not an issue at all..

sorry, I work in retail, pretty sensitive to "sizzle w. no steak" statements..

BTW: Luxeons are, arguably, better than CREE's anyways..

Why don't you ask them what is special about them.. be technically specific..

more fluff "true 6500k" emitters..
every decent LED manuf. has a bin w/in the "true 6500k" range..

The picture shows the amount of variation (from spectrum, to efficiency, to voltage characteristics ect.) possible in a single "class" of LED..

you are correct though that manuf. can request a very specific bin. It is good for product consistency. AND one does pay extra for that.

On another note.. CREE outsources a lot of their LED production. not all CREE's are equal..


Quote:
All of them will work, but only Bridgelux and Philips will have good, consistent color. Getting a Cree chip with good color is like pulling teeth.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2376772
12-15-2015 10:51 PM
Trigger334
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
Between luminous flux groups and performance groups, there are literally dozens of variation on one "color" class. As I said really meaningless
for all we know they could have the "exclusive use" of the reject class.. :
I suppose if someone is the type that looks at the world as a glass half empty and also doesn't take any of the other information in the article into context, I guess that's a point.

Considering there's a lot of evidences to show the qualities of the fixture, I don't see how someone can come to this conclusion, unless they are specifically trying to nit-pick the brand. Like the fact, the reef models also have not just a licensed emitter, but a patented emitter, which is the most advanced emitter out period (The way it looks and the energy it provides to the tank are different, you get high energy dark blue/purple energy, while it being a light blue appearance) by Osram Oslon. Or the fact they have the highest water proof rating, or the longest warranty, or that they are the largest house-hold name in the UK.... Basically everything that was in the article. If you just disregard everything in the article and try to say the emitters are meaningless, even though there's spectrum information about the emitter out...

I don't get the picture you linked too... All it does show the xb-d's are the most advanced from Cree, which is in AquaRay favor. The fact the AquaRay has a true 6500K emitter, not a combination of cool white and colors (even if they too are xb-d's), it's a huge aspect for AquaRay..
12-15-2015 01:52 AM
jeffkrol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger334 View Post
The AquaRay have the Cree XB-D. The (s) is just plural. Guess that should be made more clear. The link you provided are the emitters, which are licensed, meaning TMC had Cree make them and by contract, cannot be sold to any other brands.
Between luminous flux groups and performance groups, there are literally dozens of variation on one "color" class. As I said really meaningless
for all we know they could have the "exclusive use" of the reject class.. :
12-14-2015 11:29 PM
Trigger334
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
I've read this before:


It means nothing really, without an explanation of the difference...
Oddly enough the "normal" Cree xb-d w/out the "s"
Cree XLamp XB-D LEDs

The AquaRay have the Cree XB-D. The (s) is just plural. Guess that should be made more clear. The link you provided are the emitters, which are licensed, meaning TMC had Cree make them and by contract, cannot be sold to any other brands.
12-10-2015 08:00 PM
jeffkrol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger334 View Post
I've read this before:
Quote:
AquaRay has licensed emitters, which no one, including BML cannot get. They are the Cree 6500K xb-ds.
It means nothing really, without an explanation of the difference...
Oddly enough the "normal" Cree xb-d w/out the "s"
http://www.cree.com/LED-Components-a...onal/XLamp-XBD

Quote:
Smallest lighting-class LED enables dramatically lower system cost
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