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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-02-2012 06:57 AM
Acro I agree with Michael M.

For plants, I would suggest Anubias, Java Fern and Java Moss for your Frog tank. You don't even have to plant any of them, just attach to a rock, wood or aquarium decor.
Good Luck!
12-02-2012 03:09 AM
Michael M
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBears View Post
Wow. Beautiful tank. Definitely will be getting at least a 10 gallon. You're telling me that plants will do fine with sand, no co2, no ferts, low light, and a frog as only bioload? Can I use tap water if treated with seachem prime? Thanks for all the help!
Yes to all.
12-01-2012 10:32 PM
DaBears
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael M View Post
Here's some snapshots of my 40B with Clawed Frogs.. I know it's not an aquascaping masterpiece by any stretch but the frogs really enjoy it!

This is a 40 gallon breeder tank (which is actually 45 gallons). As you can see these guys love to swim around, get the biggest aquarium you can, trust me.

These are only 2.5 to 3.5" frogs btw.. they're still juveniles.. about 5-7 months old.
Wow. Beautiful tank. Definitely will be getting at least a 10 gallon. You're telling me that plants will do fine with sand, no co2, no ferts, low light, and a frog as only bioload? Can I use tap water if treated with seachem prime? Thanks for all the help!
12-01-2012 10:27 PM
DaBears
Quote:
Originally Posted by teatimecrumpet View Post
You know this is my very first post on this forum...I joined to post something else but since my gf has an ACF I thought I'd just pop in.

Who the heck are these people saying it's ok to stick relatively large animals in tanks just double their size? And use defenses like these animals can't talk so they can't tell us they're unhappy or not...so they must be happy!

Look, we're all jerks for keeping any animal in an environment that isn't where they are naturally from even more so for aquatic and avian animals. But we should responsibly keep them or at least admit that we cannot keep them properly when the time comes.

Seriously, get a 10 gallon, the footprint is not much bigger and the cost is probably just around the same...so why not? You could probably go even cheaper and get one on clist used.

My gf had one, in one of those 5Gallon acrylic pet carrier for years. Her dad took over and never did a lick of research. It lived in that carrier for 8 years not a single plant, hide, filter, or anything with a water line that was only an inch above it's body flat (the old man thought the frog would drown with more water...yeah...I still have to add water when I go visit). But I bought a 10g and supplies for under $20 from petco. 8 years! Honestly, I think about euthanizing the thing all the time.

Can an ACF live in bad conditions? Sure. But don't just don't.

Sorry.
Thanks for the info. U got a ten gallon tank, light, and filter all for under $20??? Please tell me how!
12-01-2012 05:49 AM
teatimecrumpet
What the...

You know this is my very first post on this forum...I joined to post something else but since my gf has an ACF I thought I'd just pop in.

Who the heck are these people saying it's ok to stick relatively large animals in tanks just double their size? And use defenses like these animals can't talk so they can't tell us they're unhappy or not...so they must be happy!

Look, we're all jerks for keeping any animal in an environment that isn't where they are naturally from even more so for aquatic and avian animals. But we should responsibly keep them or at least admit that we cannot keep them properly when the time comes.

Seriously, get a 10 gallon, the footprint is not much bigger and the cost is probably just around the same...so why not? You could probably go even cheaper and get one on clist used.

My gf had one, in one of those 5Gallon acrylic pet carrier for years. Her dad took over and never did a lick of research. It lived in that carrier for 8 years not a single plant, hide, filter, or anything with a water line that was only an inch above it's body flat (the old man thought the frog would drown with more water...yeah...I still have to add water when I go visit). But I bought a 10g and supplies for under $20 from petco. 8 years! Honestly, I think about euthanizing the thing all the time.

Can an ACF live in bad conditions? Sure. But don't just don't.

Sorry.
11-29-2012 07:55 PM
Michael M
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS View Post
Michael M, tanks looks great. I was only reading the thread due to curiosity. These guys are pretty cool.

DaBears, not knowing a single thing about these frogs, I googled their care. Every site I clicked on said MINIMUM 10 gallons a frog.
Thanks!
11-28-2012 05:29 PM
MikeS Michael M, tanks looks great. I was only reading the thread due to curiosity. These guys are pretty cool.

DaBears, not knowing a single thing about these frogs, I googled their care. Every site I clicked on said MINIMUM 10 gallons a frog.
11-28-2012 12:17 AM
Michael M Just so you have an idea of how this tank has grown very rapidly.. this was the tank on 9/16/12:



I did change a LOT of stuff but really I didn't add much besides floating plants and I removed that huge piece of driftwood which wasn't really doing it for me.. I would have to say it grew in nicely!

Again, zero fertilizers, no CO2, and a 36" Finnex Ray2 for lighting. Again, no masterpiece but I am very happy with the results. : )
11-28-2012 12:01 AM
Michael M
Planted ACF 40B Pics

Here's some snapshots of my 40B with Clawed Frogs.. I know it's not an aquascaping masterpiece by any stretch but the frogs really enjoy it!

This is a 40 gallon breeder tank (which is actually 45 gallons). As you can see these guys love to swim around, get the biggest aquarium you can, trust me.

These are only 2.5 to 3.5" frogs btw.. they're still juveniles.. about 5-7 months old.
11-27-2012 07:07 PM
Michael M
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBears View Post
Wow. Tons of new info that I have never heard before. Appreciate it a lot and will definitely reconsider the tank. Some questions...
Do plants do ok without a heater too?
I think u mentioned these frogs being sensitive to ferts...I was not going to do much fertilizing, just some seachem fluorish as directed. Will this be ok?
Is seachem fluorite an ok substrate for ACF?
I would love to see some pics of your set-up!
Thx for all the info!
Hey there, sorry for the late reply.

Plants do fine without a heater, my tank stays around 70F, which is in the cooler sub tropical range. I don't think many plants need warm water specifically.

Frogs are very sensitive to the heavy metals in fertilizers. I've written SeaChem and they responded back that their FlourishTabs are OK for amphibians but I can only assume they are safe because they are placed deep in the substrate and aren't present in the water column, this is only useful for plants which are heavy root feeders, like crypts. I'd just avoid fertilizers all together, if you're doing a low tech tank you'll probably wind up with more algae and poisoned frogs before you see much benefit for your plants.

I personally wouldn't use fluorite because your frogs can become impacted from swallowing it, the risk may not be extreme but these frogs can live 15 years or more so the chances of it eventually swallowing some of it are likely.

I use sand, I think a good sand for ACF are CaribSea's Moonlight Sand or Sunset Gold.. these aren't AWESOME for planting but they've worked OK for me. The sand is very fine and if they swallow some, it won't impact them. You could possibly use a substrate that holds plants better then add a layer of sand on top, that would work fine I think but I just use sand and my plants haven't gone anywhere.

When I get home I will post some pictures of my set up. It's only 3 months old and it's really filled in quite nicely. My wisteria is out of control and need trimmed badly, my crypt is doing well, my water sprite and frog bit/dwarf water lettuce has grown in nicely and my Anubias is actually flowering. I use no fertilizers and just have three ACF in a 40B.

Oh one last thing, make sure your frog gets at least 10 gallons, really 20 gallon long is ideal. They are very active frogs, especially at feeding time! Also make sure you get a good lid without any gaps, these guys can and will escape given half a chance. I almost lost a frog because of this but luckily I found him within a few hours.
11-26-2012 01:26 AM
DaBears
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael M View Post
Xenopus Laevis (Clawed Frogs) are not the same as normal frogs. There is very little about that that is relevant to the way we keep other more terrestrial amphibians. They are both predator and scavengers and very active swimmers. Yes a pac man frog does not need much space and they lie dormant for long periods of a time but comparing a pac man frog to an african clawed frog is retarded, they are nothing alike and their husbandry is COMPLETELY different.

These are fully aquatic frogs and their husbandry is much more akin to fish than it is to a pac man frog. Xenopus are very active swimmers and produce a LOT of waste. Why would you keep a frog in 5 gallons of water when it produces more waste than a goldfish? I think we would both agree that a goldfish would suffer and die in a 5 gallon tank... right?

You say your frog lived "quite a long time", did it live for over 10 years? Because these frogs have been known to live over 20 years if kept correctly.

I see a lot of posts on ACF forums about health issues like dropsy, bloat, red leg, fungus, burns, and I assure you that 99% of the time these problems stem from improper conditions people keep their frog in. Poor conditions stem from keeping these frogs in unfiltered and small aquariums. These are very hardy and long lived animals but every animal has a breaking point and keeping ACF in such small aquariums are a recipe for disaster. If you care about your animals, you should learn how to properly care for them.

To the OP. Get a 20 gallon long tank, a HOB filter rated for 40 gallons or more (whispers work OK), skip the heater (these frogs thrive at 68-72F which is room temperature), and keep a lid with no gaps on it so the frog does not escape.

If you want plants stick with floating plants like water sprite, amazon frogbit, wistera is also another good one. These frogs really like floating plants, you can get a little driftwood cave since these frogs like having a place to retreat to since they're skittish. Anubias and Java Fern works fine too, these can be attached to driftwood.

Overall these are not very demanding animals and with these few things your frog will be very happy and live a long time.

What I've suggested should be about the same price as your 'nano' tank and your frog will be much happier and you can enjoy your pet for years and years rather than watching it suffer and die after a year tops....

I have a very nice low-tech 'planted' ACF 40 gallon breeder tank and I will gladly show you some pictures if you want some good suggestions.
Wow. Tons of new info that I have never heard before. Appreciate it a lot and will definitely reconsider the tank. Some questions...
Do plants do ok without a heater too?
I think u mentioned these frogs being sensitive to ferts...I was not going to do much fertilizing, just some seachem fluorish as directed. Will this be ok?
Is seachem fluorite an ok substrate for ACF?
I would love to see some pics of your set-up!
Thx for all the info!
11-20-2012 04:50 AM
Michael M
Quote:
Originally Posted by FriendsNotFood View Post
I have to somewhat agree with everyone here... I had an ACF for 17 years (I miss him!). He never lived in anything smaller than a 10 and spent the last 5 or so years of his life in a 15. 15 gallons with a strong filter was just about perfect.

I also have a Petco bookshelf tank and it's just about the right size for the betta that lives there, so no, I wouldn't put an adult ACF in there. Even the males grow to be quite a bit bigger than 3 inches. 3 inches is just the body length, not counting legs. They're incredibly active swimmers and swim laps in their tank all day long.

Moreover, your frog is going to uproot pretty much any plant you put in your tank the second he gets startled and tries to find a place to hide.

I'm confused by whoever said you have to lower the water level for these frogs though, especially in a Petco bookshelf tank that's the height of a 2.5 gallon.
I may have said that, but for good reason. I feel you should lower the water level by 2 inches from the top so the frog has room to surface for air and you need a lid for these frogs since as you probably know, they are awesome at escaping (mine someone got through a 1/2 inch gap in a glass lid where a whisper filter clip ran under the lid so it wasn't a 'tight' fit.. but luckily I found him!).

I think most people with ACF lower the water ~4 inches or so to reduce escape attempts, they're not uncommon. I keep mine about 2 inches from the top but my glass lid has zero gaps now and so far so good.

I've had good luck with my frogs and plants. It really depends, stuff like dwarf hair grass and ludwiga just didn't work. My moneywort and wisteria stays planted though, I tend to wedge it in between driftwood though and that works out alright for me.
11-19-2012 09:56 PM
FriendsNotFood I have to somewhat agree with everyone here... I had an ACF for 17 years (I miss him!). He never lived in anything smaller than a 10 and spent the last 5 or so years of his life in a 15. 15 gallons with a strong filter was just about perfect.

I also have a Petco bookshelf tank and it's just about the right size for the betta that lives there, so no, I wouldn't put an adult ACF in there. Even the males grow to be quite a bit bigger than 3 inches. 3 inches is just the body length, not counting legs. They're incredibly active swimmers and swim laps in their tank all day long.

Moreover, your frog is going to uproot pretty much any plant you put in your tank the second he gets startled and tries to find a place to hide.

I'm confused by whoever said you have to lower the water level for these frogs though, especially in a Petco bookshelf tank that's the height of a 2.5 gallon.
11-17-2012 04:29 PM
Michael M
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imi Statue View Post
Why are you going there? It has nothing to do with "Ethics"! You people would love to put more cost and larger quarters for the frog when it just isn't necessary. Frogs don't have the same requirements as Humans or Fish. They do not need as much room period.

The Frog will be just as happy in 6.6 gallons as 10! I've seen Pac-Man frogs live in their entire life and grow to 8" across in a standard 5 gallon bucket.

Imi
Xenopus Laevis (Clawed Frogs) are not the same as normal frogs. There is very little about that that is relevant to the way we keep other more terrestrial amphibians. They are both predator and scavengers and very active swimmers. Yes a pac man frog does not need much space and they lie dormant for long periods of a time but comparing a pac man frog to an african clawed frog is retarded, they are nothing alike and their husbandry is COMPLETELY different.

These are fully aquatic frogs and their husbandry is much more akin to fish than it is to a pac man frog. Xenopus are very active swimmers and produce a LOT of waste. Why would you keep a frog in 5 gallons of water when it produces more waste than a goldfish? I think we would both agree that a goldfish would suffer and die in a 5 gallon tank... right?

You say your frog lived "quite a long time", did it live for over 10 years? Because these frogs have been known to live over 20 years if kept correctly.

I see a lot of posts on ACF forums about health issues like dropsy, bloat, red leg, fungus, burns, and I assure you that 99% of the time these problems stem from improper conditions people keep their frog in. Poor conditions stem from keeping these frogs in unfiltered and small aquariums. These are very hardy and long lived animals but every animal has a breaking point and keeping ACF in such small aquariums are a recipe for disaster. If you care about your animals, you should learn how to properly care for them.

To the OP. Get a 20 gallon long tank, a HOB filter rated for 40 gallons or more (whispers work OK), skip the heater (these frogs thrive at 68-72F which is room temperature), and keep a lid with no gaps on it so the frog does not escape.

If you want plants stick with floating plants like water sprite, amazon frogbit, wistera is also another good one. These frogs really like floating plants, you can get a little driftwood cave since these frogs like having a place to retreat to since they're skittish. Anubias and Java Fern works fine too, these can be attached to driftwood.

Overall these are not very demanding animals and with these few things your frog will be very happy and live a long time.

What I've suggested should be about the same price as your 'nano' tank and your frog will be much happier and you can enjoy your pet for years and years rather than watching it suffer and die after a year tops....

I have a very nice low-tech 'planted' ACF 40 gallon breeder tank and I will gladly show you some pictures if you want some good suggestions.
11-17-2012 03:32 PM
fplata ^^
^^
100% agree with both of you
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