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Thread: Something is missing from my fertilizer! Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-20-2013 09:18 PM
Smertrios 3 weeks later now.

I dont what would be considered fast growth for Wisteria but I can see growth everyday and after 3 weeks of watching it grow I can tell it is doing much better with the eco-complete substrate and not just feeding off itself.

The anacharis stems were put into the tank a few days after the Wisteria as cuttings about 2-1/2 inches long. You can see the small leaves at the bottom of the plant and how the new growth gradually gets bigger and more dense towards the top. The small leaves are from growing in my previous setup.

The clump of brown moss is java moss that was dying in the other setup. There is some green I am hoping will come back to life.

I have a question! On the lower leaves of the wisteria and on the silicone tubing in the far right of the picture are small brown tubes. In the pic they just look like brown lines but I noticed there is no brown algae around the lines. They have a small worm like creature inside of them feeding on the brown algae! Do you know what they could be? I have small green flies in another of my tanks could this been the larval form?
01-02-2013 12:36 AM
jhays79 In my experience and from what I have heard anacharis melts off in warm water tanks.
01-01-2013 10:54 PM
Smertrios The reason I want to grow plants using the nutrients in the water is because of another aspect of fish keeping I am interested in (but have not tried yet).

I want to see first hand how tilapia will grow when fed 100% duckweed or at least a *very* large portion of the diet as duckweed. The idea being that with some relatively cheap plant fertilizer + fish wastes recycled into new duckweed the cost to produce a pound of fish could be low. Thats the idea... I would be growing these indoors but for the "low costs" it would have to be done outside using natural sunlight. Its mostly a proof of concept I guess but I have read several reports saying that duckweed can be a 100% food supplement for tilapia but they grow slower than when eating a commerical dry compressed pellet. If the duckweed is dried and compressed into pellets its still good for replacing part of a commercial tilapia diet..

However I seem to have a hard time growing plants at all so buying fish for something like this would fail from the get go =P
12-31-2012 09:42 PM
Smertrios My first attempt with plants was in a 10 gallon tank. I wanted to grow plants without substrate using just fertilizer in the water but that has not worked. Something is missing.

This is attempt #2 using 20 pounds of "ECO Complete" substrate. I have pellia all over the tank and a bit of wisteria. The bottle is my CO2 reaction chamber powered by a small water pump.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...739&highlight=
above link shows the 10 gallon tank I started with and the CO2 reactor. Unfortunate but most of the plants I started with are gone.
12-30-2012 05:18 AM
plantbrain
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smertrios View Post
I changed how I was dosing and for a few days it seemed to be working. Roots started shooting out along the stems of my wisteria and new leaves were forming but then it all stopped. The anacharis does not grow either.

I've been waiting for weeks doing the same thing but I see no new growth. There must be something missing. I've been working on the assumption that EI ferts was 100% of what is needed for plant growth. I dont have a substrate in the tank maybe that is the problem.
Ferts are maybe 10-20% of it, light, we can assuem you have enough, but the CO2.....there's the thing.

You can have 10-20X more growth with good CO2 dosign vs non cO2, that's where 90-95% of folk's growth issues and killing fish/livestock originate.

EI just rules out fert issues. Then you can focus on say light, or CO2, filtration etc.
12-29-2012 10:54 PM
GeToChKn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smertrios View Post
I changed how I was dosing and for a few days it seemed to be working. Roots started shooting out along the stems of my wisteria and new leaves were forming but then it all stopped. The anacharis does not grow either.

I've been waiting for weeks doing the same thing but I see no new growth. There must be something missing. I've been working on the assumption that EI ferts was 100% of what is needed for plant growth. I dont have a substrate in the tank maybe that is the problem.
What are you growing them in if you don't have any substrate?
12-29-2012 10:45 PM
Smertrios I changed how I was dosing and for a few days it seemed to be working. Roots started shooting out along the stems of my wisteria and new leaves were forming but then it all stopped. The anacharis does not grow either.

I've been waiting for weeks doing the same thing but I see no new growth. There must be something missing. I've been working on the assumption that EI ferts was 100% of what is needed for plant growth. I dont have a substrate in the tank maybe that is the problem.
11-05-2012 05:25 PM
dr.tran
Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
The beauty of EI to me is that you don't really have to test that much (or at all). Wondering about ratios, etc. etc is great if you like to treat your tank like a test tube, but in reality every tank is different and you simply don't know that. If you dose high-end EI and are religious about water changes, etc you will eliminate 95% of any issue that develop. If I had to worry about testing every parameter I would have quit this hobby a long time ago.
Absolutely. I full hearty agree with you.

Personally I just like to understand everything I use as much as I can. Its kinda entertaining for me. The theory approach is very nice so that I can work it out pragmatically at a later time.

Anyway back to the topic. I guess at a safer side, Smertrios can try all approaches as a leave no stone unturned method. Best of luck!
11-05-2012 04:54 PM
houseofcards
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.tran View Post
Your approach is definitely understandable. For some time I also thought I was also missing potassium and started to dose K2SO4 to make up for my deficency.

But with the EI dosing I worked out by molecular mass that it would be a ratio of 1: .08 : .15 of NPK. Which should be sufficient. The numbers might be off a little. I have to find my notes but my point is that the potassium is not at at a level that's below the minimum threshold.

Also I never noticed any difference when adding or not adding K2SO4 as long as I use the EI routine
The beauty of EI to me is that you don't really have to test that much (or at all). Wondering about ratios, etc. etc is great if you like to treat your tank like a test tube, but in reality every tank is different and you simply don't know that. If you dose high-end EI and are religious about water changes, etc you will eliminate 95% of any issue that develop. If I had to worry about testing every parameter I would have quit this hobby a long time ago.
11-05-2012 04:52 PM
Smertrios Thanks for all the replies and so fast! I was putting the micros and macros in a bottle than adding water before shaking. I'll start dosing macros and micros on alternate days and see if that helps. And if not I will try other things (might do that anyway after I see if changing dosing helps)

For CO2 I have a 20lb cylinder and a home made reactor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB3ETWh5JCA

For lighting I am using 2 14 watt 6000k CFLs
11-05-2012 04:49 PM
houseofcards Your just guessing. You don't know how much mass/uptake is going on. I don't have to be right to say it's better to put it in then not to. If he doesn't put it in, he might be short if he does he's not, it's that simple.
11-05-2012 04:38 PM
Hoppy As I recall, "Barrs GH Booster" contains a lot of potassium sulfate, so I doubt this being a potassium deficiency. We need to start at the beginning - the lighting. What specific light fixture are you using?

I vaguely recall that Anacharis is a cool water plant, which doesn't handle warm water very well. If that is correct, is your water warmer than it used to be?
11-05-2012 04:19 PM
dr.tran
Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
Regardless he's showing a deficiency. Dosing extra K will only help so it's a no-brainer to put it in. K get's used up very quickly in co2/good light. Personally I would do that than go by the notion that there is 'suppose' to be enough from the other two macros.
Your approach is definitely understandable. For some time I also thought I was also missing potassium and started to dose K2SO4 to make up for my deficency.

But with the EI dosing I worked out by molecular mass that it would be a ratio of 1: .08 : .15 of NPK. Which should be sufficient. The numbers might be off a little. I have to find my notes but my point is that the potassium is not at at a level that's below the minimum threshold.

Also I never noticed any difference when adding or not adding K2SO4 as long as I use the EI routine
11-05-2012 04:06 PM
dr.tran I agree with many of the post above. Dosing macros and micros on the same day never affected me. As long as I give it about 15 minutes in between dosing. They have to be thoroughly dissolve before adding the micro or macro. I forget the science but plantbrain has explained it in the past.

It seems like you scaled down the EI ferts to a 10 gal tank. So you shouldn't have a problem with potassium especially with something like anacharis. However, for me it seems to do better in hard water. What is your kH and gH? You may need to double up on the GH booster depending on your source water. There is calcium and magnesium in the GH booster. You just might not be adding enough of it.

Also how are you Co2 injecting and what is your light/photoperiod? What is your substrate? Generally I find that anacharis is a low light plant so I doubt that's the problem unless its the extremes. Which then leads me to my next point, how heavily planted is the tank? If its very heavy or you have lots of light, you have to balance it out by adding more Co2. Or even at another extreme, may have to boost your ferts to supplement the extra plant load.

But most likely I think you have to double up on your GH booster.
11-05-2012 03:23 PM
BruceF check the calcium... anacahris likes calcium.
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