|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|10-24-2012 11:45 AM|
Back to topic, sorry...
I will be looking into getting some clove oil when it's needed.
|10-24-2012 11:39 AM|
Anyway, I'm all for the pack leader method. I think they're smarter than you are giving them credit for in the statement above, but this is the method they rule themselves by. I hate being a disciplinarian, hell, that's why my kids run me ragged, but I know it's needed for a stable environment.
|10-24-2012 11:27 AM|
|10-24-2012 05:08 AM|
|ShyShrimpDoc||As to the use of a gun comment, I am not sure i could hit a fish, at least not any I own (maybe my bigger pleco, but definitely not a threadfin or khuli loach). And I am fairly decent with a gun. Besides digging the bullet out of wherever it winds up and explaining to the police why I fired a gun in my apartment are more than I'd want to go through for a fish. In the lab we overdosed them on MS222. It works good as long as you buffer the pH. Quick and painless (since it blocks neural conduction). Problems with home use: short storage life when mixed, and requires special disposal considerations.|
|10-10-2012 09:44 PM|
Originally Posted by Rainer View Post
|10-10-2012 08:58 PM|
Originally Posted by Michael M View Post
|10-10-2012 08:48 PM|
If a fish is sick I quarantine it in a small tank with an air stone, treat it if possible and hope it recovers or let it die quietly in peace.
I don't see how that is cruel.
|10-10-2012 08:41 PM|
I never liked the idea of putting fish in the freezer, first of all it's where I keep the food I'm going to eat plus I think it takes about the same amount of time to die in the trash can/toilet as it does waiting to freeze to death.
I personally let my fish die in the tank or if you will at home just like I would want to be treated. If the have some decease that I can't treat another night in the tank isn't going to make a difference in the grand scheme of things and if it's contagious the rest of the crew already has it anyway. But I have never had a problem buy letting them die in the tank and I have rarely if ever tossed a live fish in the trash, toilet, or freezer but none of them sound like a better way to go unless you've got fish morphine.
|10-10-2012 08:25 PM|
The best part about this thread is the 'garbage disposal' method.
That is the equivalent of tossing your sick family dog into a wood chipper.
Hilarious. I think I'd rather freeze to death, personally.
|10-10-2012 08:22 PM|
Originally Posted by Michael M View Post
I'm just eye rolling the above post.
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|10-10-2012 07:04 PM|
|Michael M||Where is Cesar Millan when you need him???|
|10-10-2012 06:59 PM|
I don't train my dogs to execute commands because they're fearful of what may happen when they don't, they execute commands because they receive praise and positive reinforcement. Most of them want to obey of their own free will, not because they're afraid I'll punish them.
I am not referring to prongs, shock, choke, etc, etc. I don't use those methods as I know when abused they can lead to long-term behavioral damage of the dog in question.
When referring to negative reinforcement, it is exactly as you say, withholding of rewards, scoldings, and in the extreme cases a "slap on the wrist." Punishing the dog when it does something it's not supposed to do, not punishing it because it didn't do what you want it to do.
|10-10-2012 06:12 PM|
|10-10-2012 05:45 PM|
Koehler method was developed to get dogs ready for military for battle. The mindset at that time toward the dogs was more medieval. There wasn't much concern administrate;y if they came home or not.
"However, there is no argument in the community that negative reinforcement is an effective and HARMLESS training tool if done correctly."
If by negative re-imforcement you mean Hanging a dog, using a Prong, Choker, Zapping it with an E-collar or shaking it then your quote that's just not completely true.
At best it's acceptable depending on the "community" of training one is involved in. Hunting, Schutzhund, Civil PP, Obedience Comp. maybe, Therapy, Service dogs, Agility, no...not so much.
Now if if you might mean Negitive re-enforcement via ignoring the dog holding back praise, ball or food yes I agree and I use that approach.
As far as "Old School" I learned that way 30 yrs ago. I reject those methods as I prefer the Sirus method and that's the style I train in. I want my dogs to "excute" commands because they want to not out of fear of punishment.
Just to bring it home I've owned Catahoulas that have high pointed in Open Bays, Am. Bulldog that was Civil PP trained, Rottweiler that is retired Schutzhund dog...All have gotten TDI certs, all championed in conformation.
I hunt myself and among other this have hunted hawgs in Tn. the traditional way. I do understand the challenges with working a pack. However, all animal training is ultimately Silmulus/Responce. It's really only a matter of which stimulus you choose to present to the dog.
|10-10-2012 05:43 PM|
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