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Thread: Does anybody else feel like this hobby is a double-edged sword? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-04-2011 06:28 PM
Reginald2
Quote:
Originally Posted by soc200 View Post

I agree. The same could be said for keeping other animals, child-rearing to a certain extent too. The fact is most people don't CARE nearly enough about the needs of the creatures they keep, humans included.
I completely agree.

Humans have a really complicated place in nature, and I'm not too sure that we have precisely defined where, and how, we will choose to interact with it. I'm really only comforted by the fact that this is a pretty new problem for us.

If I think about it in the time span of the history of human life. We fought and scratched and, out of necessity, thought and lived our roles in a completely different light. We were low on the totem pole and had to think about things in terms of survival. What utility could we get, how could we bend nature to accommodate us, and would we have enough. We simply are not in the role that we were however many years ago.

I think one of the dangers that we face is to re-use thinking that has become outdated or to trade one devil for another. I would venture to say that one of the problems that we face is blind messages to consume all that we can. Consumerism and education do not often go hand in hand.
04-04-2011 03:16 PM
lauraleellbp
Quote:
Originally Posted by VaultBoy View Post
I rarely test for anything in my tanks but everything is happy, growing and breeding. Am I ignorant?
"Ignorant" would only apply to someone who makes no attempt at all to learn about what their livestock and plants need, and refuses to bother to learn after purchase, either- even when problems develop and they're offered resources.

I rarely test my tanks either, once they're established- but I do monitor them just about daily for problems and I know how to do tests or research if I do happen to find any issues.
04-04-2011 03:10 PM
houseofcards
Quote:
Originally Posted by VaultBoy View Post
I rarely test for anything in my tanks but everything is happy, growing and breeding. Am I ignorant?
The short answer is No.

I think there's a big difference between someone that learns about something and doesn't need to test as opposed to someone that goes into Petsmart and buys a clown fish after seeing Finding Nemo" and doesn't know anything about saltwater fish and doesn't test before purchasing.
04-04-2011 01:05 PM
VaultBoy
Quote:
On the other side of the hobby is us, the people who measure TDS and pH and gH and kH and temperature and ammonia and nitrites and nitrates to make sure our animals aren't suffering in any way. It's pretty much the same with any animal, there are (for lack of a better term) ignorant people who don't know what they should be doing and don't care enough to find out.
I rarely test for anything in my tanks but everything is happy, growing and breeding. Am I ignorant?
04-04-2011 12:45 PM
soc200
Quote:
Originally Posted by macclellan View Post
I agree. The same could be said for keeping other animals, child-rearing to a certain extent too. The fact is most people don't know nearly enough about the needs of the creatures they keep, humans included.

I agree. The same could be said for keeping other animals, child-rearing to a certain extent too. The fact is most people don't CARE nearly enough about the needs of the creatures they keep, humans included.



Fixed! Ignorance is a choice. There have been public libraries since the 17th century and the internet is free.
04-04-2011 07:09 AM
WaterLogged *delete*

^ It's better for everyone that I deleted what I previously typed. I get unreasonably upset about this topic so I'll just say this. I agree OP, the sword is double edged. It's also so very sharp you almost can't feel it cutting you at first.
04-04-2011 05:56 AM
lauraleellbp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crispino Ramos View Post
I know a couple of school teachers who are members of our local aquatic plant club. They have aquariums in their classrooms and teaching their students the fundamentals of aquarium plant and fish keeping. Isn't that great? These elementary school kids will be successfull in this hobby if they so choose.
Kudos to them!

IMO the best thing any of us can do is to be a part of the solution rather than part of the problem. I know that's a big reason I enjoy forums like this.
04-04-2011 05:14 AM
Crispino L Ramos I know a couple of school teachers who are members of our local aquatic plant club. They have aquariums in their classrooms and teaching their students the fundamentals of aquarium plant and fish keeping. Isn't that great? These elementary school kids will be successfull in this hobby if they so choose.
04-04-2011 04:13 AM
redfishsc This kind of thing happens in every hobby and many professions.

How many people blow untold oodles of money on whack job medical "professionals" who sell their patients snake oil? I've seen very good doctors, and lousy doctors. Good pharmacists, lousy pharmacists. Bad dentists, and worse dentists (apologies to any dentist on here lol). It's hard to tell the difference until you've had one very good doctor to compare the rest against.


Being a cabinet maker, I see it happen in woodworking. Lousy and unnecessary tools sold for stupid prices that only make life harder.


And dabbling in electronics and LEDs, it's even worse there. It's way too easy for some companies (who sell LEDs to the reefing and plant world) to pull the wool over people's eyes by twisting data.



Education is part of the key to this. If you get your education ONLY from the place that sells you stuff (whether it's the pharmacist, the woodworking retailer, or the LFS)... you're going to get screwed royally at some point.

Get your info from elsewhere and compare it to what you're told by the retailer, and judge for yourself. I have a few very, very good LFS's in my area, so I visit them. The rest can go flush themselves.
04-04-2011 01:04 AM
ktownhero
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senior Shrimpo View Post
The saltwater aspect of the hobby is a little better; most people know what they're doing in saltwater..
I'm getting worried that that is slowly not remaining true. Traditionally that was true mostly because saltwater didn't have a lot of mainstream exposure. In past years, you pretty much had to go to online forums and develop a relationship with a LFS or online dealer to set up a saltwater tank. Now the big chain stores, more and more, are putting saltwater fish in their stock. I've seen walls of saltwater fish at the chain stores, just like you find the freshwater. None of the tanks have any live rock, the corals look absolutely pathetic, I've seen yellow tangs in 10g displays. Ugh.

Sometimes you really gotta watch what you wish for in this world. On one hand you want things to become popular so that it becomes more mainstream, cheaper, and more readily available. On the other hand, that usually attracts a lot of people that just straight-up don't have any respect for the creatures they buy or sell.
04-04-2011 12:54 AM
ktownhero
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senior Shrimpo View Post
Betas too, the little pickle jars pet stores sell targetting ignorant newbs to fishkeeping should be banned under animal cruelty laws.
Yeah, there's nothing more saddening than seeing stacks and stacks of those little tiny jars each with a beta in them. And what's even worse than that, to me, is when you see a couple jars of betas sitting in some odd place like on an empty shelf or on the floor where people put them down randomly -- it's just the complete objectifying of the animal that gets me. Like, seriously, is it THAT hard to just put it back where it goes and show the poor animal at least that much respect for its life?

Somebody mentioned tattoo'd mollies, I saw some bright orange, pink, and green tetras today that were clearly injected with color. So sad.

On the bright side, it reminds me of why I shouldn't make a big deal about paying a little extra to go to a reputable LFS. I have a phenomenal local LFS that quarantines their stock, and provides high quality care for both their plants and animals. I was questioning their prices, but no more. I'll gladly pay the premium. Not only for the moral issue, but also so I don't end up contaminating my tank. You should have seen the horrible condition of some of the plants I saw today. Putting one of them in your tank was a guaranteed algae bomb. [face_puke]
04-04-2011 12:44 AM
houseofcards It is sad, but true. Pictures like this from leading manufacturers also do not help, showing impossible stocking levels.



I also try not to support the big chains in their fish selling since so little of their profit comes from livestock that they will never put the money toward proper education and upkeep.
04-04-2011 12:28 AM
Senior Shrimpo I agree with you 100%. Walk into the fish section of any chain pet store and you'll find people who are buying a 10 gallon and six goldfish. The saltwater aspect of the hobby is a little better; most people know what they're doing in saltwater.

But in pet stores, people buy 10 gallon tanks, gravel and a light (it's sad that many don't even buy filters) and are reassured by their all-knowing fish salesman that their goldfish/beta/tetras/etc can thrive in a world of fresh tap water and little castles.

On the other side of the hobby is us, the people who measure TDS and pH and gH and kH and temperature and ammonia and nitrites and nitrates to make sure our animals aren't suffering in any way. It's pretty much the same with any animal, there are (for lack of a better term) ignorant people who don't know what they should be doing and don't care enough to find out. If you so much as google "how to keep goldfish" you'll discover they need BIG tanks, and most are better in ponds.

Betas too, the little pickle jars pet stores sell targetting ignorant newbs to fishkeeping should be banned under animal cruelty laws.
04-04-2011 12:05 AM
BaltimoreGuy Nothing disgusts me more then the tattooed mollies.
04-03-2011 11:53 PM
scags I agree. Pet keeping in general is a bad thing. Too many treat animals as objects instead of living breathing life forms.

All too often animals are sold at pet stores to uneducated folks who simply purchased the animals thinking it was cool looking.
Just look at how most pet stores treat their animals...generally dirty enclosures, sick animals, overcrowded, algae and cyanobacteria, dead fish, etc.

All my non-fish pets came from rescue organizations. I suggest everyone else do the same.
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