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  Topic Review (Newest First)
01-01-2012 09:55 PM
plantbrain You could search the solubility for the various types of tourmaline, but that did not yield much for the searches I tried some years ago.

You could always toss a piece in a glass of water and seal it and see how long it take dissolve. Or measure the Boron content a month or two later etc.

My take on this stuff and like it........put up or shut up. This is not rude in the least, asking me to suspend common sense quite frankly, is rude.
The burden of proof is upon the one selling and making the claims, not the skeptics. If they cannot placate those folks without getting personal, lawsuits whatever.......then they do not have any evidence that suggest it works.

If "non limiting PO4 causes algae".........then adding it should induce algae, if not.......well.........I've satisfied the falsification of the claim, even without selling PO4.
There is not even any indirect evidence that it works, (like the Boron jar test I suggested above, which is frankly easy to do). Put up or shut up.
01-01-2012 08:56 PM There isn't any documented or testable benefit to be found.
There never has been.
01-01-2012 01:43 PM
Steve001 Looking around the other sites rootmedic in particular I came across the additive tourmaline. Further research led me to this thread
Excusing all of the hype has there been any benefit found to the use of this product since the ending of the thread ?
11-10-2010 04:54 PM
deleted_user_7 I think its food for the bacteria to get started with, and fresh aquasoil has a lot of crap in it.... When I bought mine lots of protein film came up and out of the water so I guess it helpsnto absorb that, too. After that it's just more surface area for bacteria to grow on, because charcoal/carbon is only good for a limited amount of time. Also absorbs tannins,

That's why I did not buy tourmaline BC. I just added 100 mls of matrix carbon (spherical so it blends in with the aquasoil if it gets mixed up ever) and crushed my own tourmaline into sand and added it. I did not like the fact they they don't tell you what ratio tourmaline bc has of carbon to tourmaline in the 100 gram bottles they sell, so I know exactly what I put in my system.

For a terrarium it serves as a drainage layer I guess, and in the olden days they probably thought it was good to keep the media fresh but carbon only lasts a month at best (I think seachem matrix claims six months?) but having set up terrariums before (more like vivariums minus the plants) you should Make a false bottom so you can water as much as you want and drain it out when you want and nothing becomes foul.

Charcoal is a good soil additive to any terrestrial soil mix really, since it's light and airy and adds some chunkiness. I add horticultural grade charcoal to my orchid and carnivorous plant mixes. It absorbs trace elements for a while then just becomes chunky soil additive. Pumice is good, too. Pea gravel would work if you don't want to use charcoal but a false bottom is the best.

On a side note, I just ordered a half pound of tourmaline on eBay for THREE bucks! If you want to use it, go to eBay and type in schorl! You can get like four pounds of the stuff for what it costs for 250 grams of the Ada stuff, but you won't get the pretty box or green filter pouch it comes in.
11-10-2010 04:39 PM
Bunbuku On tangential note. What is the charocal under the substrate supposed to do? It does not seem to be a unique to ADA tourmaline BC.

When I was looking into setting up a terrarium a lot of the instructions called for putting a layer of activated charcoal at the bottom before adding the "real" substrate.
11-10-2010 02:32 PM
plantbrain I just think this type of marketing should be very actively discouraged and we should extremely critical of it in the hobby.

It does not help anyone or teach anyone much.
Hence does not support and help the hobby evolve.

Tom Barr
11-10-2010 12:37 PM
tharsis I found a rock that keeps bears away, I can sell it for $ should bring great peace of mind to you.
11-10-2010 09:45 AM
Originally Posted by ClintonSParsons View Post
No no no, see, it has to have the hologram imprinted on it or else I am not interested. How else are plants supposed to know what they are supposed to act like for optimal health number one good luck time?

An ADA Hologram i assume /just read your tank journal.

I see where you're coming from. More of an "act of good faith" than a scientifically proven fact. Same concept as hanging a cross over your door or arranging your furniture to ensure proper "energy flow".
11-10-2010 05:18 AM
deleted_user_7 No no no, see, it has to have the hologram imprinted on it or else I am not interested. How else are plants supposed to know what they are supposed to act like for optimal health number one good luck time?

11-10-2010 05:14 AM
mordalphus The only supernatural thing tom barr believes in, is TOM BARR!!!

For christs sake, clinton, he's a DOCTOR!!!

lol, but really... Who cares, if something gives you peace of mind, do it! If you are concerned that you're spending money on ONLY peace of mind, then work that problem out with toms help.

In the meantime, if you wish, I'll write penac on a 6 gram bag of montmorillonite and send it to you!
11-10-2010 04:42 AM
deleted_user_7 The difference between you and I is that I don't really care for a vehement debate. I'm just not that passionate. I'd rather spend my thirty bucks and be happy, I guess. As a bio major with an interest in Botany (want to go into the field) I'd still buy and use tourmaline and penac, just in case. As a PROFESSIONAL, I'd never use or recommend tourmaline or Penac if I was being paid to advise someone. As a HOBBYIST, I am happy to use them because no ones money is at stake but my own. Take that as you will.

Superstition? Absolutely. Personally I believe in chi, other spiritual things, etc.

If you don't, that's totally cool and I respect that, too. Not everything has to be a hardcore debate, tom. It's all cool. I will throw away my money and be happy, you can save your money and say I should not be happy and I threw away my money.

At the end of the day, I spent next to nothing on something that probably doesn't do anything of testable benefit, but I'm happy and content, and you have $30 more than I did.

11-10-2010 04:29 AM
Originally Posted by ClintonSParsons View Post
Tom, actually I am looking into Penac-W. Why? Because it doesn't hurt anything, and because it costs $0.14 per gram, and because a bottle will last me two years.
Basically, Tom, at the end of the day I'm paying for peace of mind. It's worth a lot to me, and that's what I'm paying for.
Yes, so would a good book.

Does not hurt anything in the tank either ....since this is argument for your ruler/metric for scrutiny. This is the best support for the argument you can come up with?? So you wanna go with...........superstition?

These are the very same arguments used to sell diet pills that do not work, Water ionizers, and every snake oil I've seen in this hobby the last 30 some odd years. Show me they work as stated, not your superstition.

Cost? Does not matter if it has no effect to begin with.

Mark Twain stated that marketing was nothing more than crooks trying to get people to spend money on stuff they do not need... with money they do not have. Come to think of it, a good book might help actually more.
I'll hang on to my $ for things a lot more tangible. If nothing else, for the principle alone.

As far as water ionization, quackery about tourmaline...

So what else you got for the debate?
Anything good or more of the same??

Tom Barr
11-10-2010 12:47 AM
deleted_user_7 Tom, actually I am looking into Penac-W. Why? Because it doesn't hurt anything, and because it costs $0.14 per gram, and because a bottle will last me two years. At $0.14 per gram and a life span of two years on my sized tank, I don't care if you think it's bogus. If it has subtle effects, then yeah I can afford it at that price. I know Amano endorses the Plocher energy system, and I don't believe he would attach his name/his company's name to something he did not believe in. Even if it is mere Bentonite, I am paying for great quality Bentonite and I'll feel good about adding it.

As for Penac-P, I'm not going to buy a 200 gram bottle when I only need six grams and it's only good to lay down once and is not meant to be dosed after that. I wont pay for 200 grams when I need six. If anyone would like to sell me six grams, let me know.

If I could find Penac-A, those little stick things, I'd buy some of them, too. Can't find them in America.

Basically, Tom, at the end of the day I'm paying for peace of mind. It's worth a lot to me, and that's what I'm paying for.
11-09-2010 04:56 AM
Finalplay10 Wow I feel smarter from just reading this thread. It's has quite a bit of large words that I don't understand. I think it's crap myself but I'll leave the door open in case I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
11-09-2010 03:27 AM
Originally Posted by ClintonSParsons View Post
I bought 250 grams of tourmaline at a gem show. Crushed it into sand, laid it down on the bottom of my tank. I wasn't going to buy the Ada tourmaline bc which is tourmaline dust and powdered carbon.

I paid $30 but when crushed it was shiny inside, shards of crystals of blue and green!

Bought 250 grams of the Ada stuff for about $18. Did the same. It was just black... No crystals. Much lower quality... But I paid much less than what I got at a gem show.

If anyone would like to see the Californian tourmaline I crushed and look at the pretty crystals, here it is along with a pic of what Ada sells for you filter. The Californian stuff I bought Looked the same before it was crushed. When I crushed the Ada stuff, there were NO crystals inside. Much lower quality in my opinion.

This rough tourmaline is called Schorl. You can buy like three pounds of it on ebay for like $20! It's like tourmaline ore and not gem quality tourmaline.... But the same if not better as the schorl that ADA sells,

Do I KNOW it does anything? Nope. Do I think it does anything? I do... I buy into the whole ionization stuff. There is tourmaline in my hair brush, too.

Do I think I need a pound of crushed tourmaline sand in my ADA aquasoil? Absolutely not. Its in there just in case there are any benefits at all.

I call total BS on it being used to slowly supply lithium and boron or whatever Tourmaline is made of. Schorl is a rock. The minerals aren't bioavailable. Tourmaline has electrical properties, and as a geek I think that's cool, but it more than likely doesn't do anything for the aquarium or my hairbrush for that matter.

But it's there just in case, and thats why I choose to spend money on things like that.
Oh, you are a Penac fan also?
"Biodynamic" farming.

We gots plenty of them in the wine growers out here these days.
Good example of going too far one direction.

Organic, local, small farmers, I can buy into that.
Fruity stuff, nope. It incurs my full wrath.

But this is true for most things, not just aquariums.

Tom Barr
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