|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|09-29-2010 10:36 PM|
Well, today I learned that I will never consider 2 weeks a safe quarantine period again.
I guess I've just been lucky that I've never encountered anything that's not easy to identify/cure.
|09-29-2010 09:45 PM|
Like everyone else I hope to learn something everyday. (nice when its not painful LOL) Jadelin, your not the only one not trying to be antagonistic sorry if it's reading that way. Just trying to be as clear as possible and convey expensive (to me) information. I thought for years that without outward indication that fish were 'safe' after a couple of weeks too. Until I received those special order "selected best of my F1 stock" DDSV's. I always thought that treating healthy looking fish was foolish. Then I got bit and lost fish I'd had for years and yes I know they are just fish but I was attached. Two that I lost were 2 of the remaining 3 I kept from my first ever in house spawn.
Processing new arrivals into established systems requires some treatments with or without symptoms is where we are not on the same page. The pathogens are not rare and 45 days is 3 days over 2x life cycle not 2.5 (enough of that sorry)
The primary reasoning behind much of what I post regarding treatments is provided here and if I had been armed with this information before those DDSV's arrived my original population would not have been affected.
The following is written in reply by Charles Harrison, Ph.D. replying to a request for more information on treatments.
Flubendazole is indicated for Protozoa, Levamisole is indicated for Nematodes. Although Flubendazole is a broader treatment medication, it takes longer to work and is more messy to work with than Levamisole which is much more soluble.
Levamisole won't touch Protozoa or bacteria making it good for the tank Nitrogen cycle, etc.
5 grams of Levamisole treats 100 gallons and we could have saved all those fish last year with just a few grams of the stuff if I were more visible to people in need. Just how did you find me anyway?
I would like to make it easier for all.
With the volume of water you have and the fact that Nematodes are the most likely to sneak up on you, I would recommend 6 - 5 gram packs of Levamisole and 50 grams of Flubendazole 10%.
I will package 3 packs in one sealed bag and the
2 - 25 gram bottles of Flubendazole separately.
They will keep much longer that way and don't open them until needed.
I have ample supply so if you do run into a problem you can treat and write me back for more of what ever you need. I don't have any stock of Acriflavine at the moment.
2nd follow up received last night regarding hazards using Flubendazole treatments in a tank containing inverts.
Flubendazole will kill snails effectively.
As far as the rest of the life forms it remains unknown but I have not had a problem with a bacteria kill. On the other hand a lot of dead snails presents a problem with a bacteria bloom. Keep the water temperatures in the 70's when using it. Keep the tanks changed near 100% as possible. Yellow water can present a problem.
Prior to today I've post a couple of times with information regarding H2O2 treatments for algae, bacteria and how to protect established filter systems when doing so. All this came to me the hard way and sharing information that helps is what these forums are all about. (imo)
There really isn't much difference between Plop and drop, Plop (float the bag) drop (pour the fish in the tank) and 14 days. Whats listed above in this post along with H2O2 and or salt baths for those species that tolerate them is what will protect against the unwanted additions most of us are concerned with.
While several articles were WAY over my education level this linked one is straight forward.
Eradicating Hydra and Other Pests with Flubendazole
From: Journal of the American Killifish Association September/October 2003
Vol.36, No. 5
By Charles Harrison, Ph.D.
|09-29-2010 08:29 PM|
|tuffgong||I do a minimum of 4 weeks. I've done six with fish from the big box stores. I've got too much time and money into my tanks to let a couple new fish potentially wipe everything out.|
|09-29-2010 08:27 PM|
Nothing I said disagreed with anything you just said. I'm not trying to be antagonistic. I agree totally that quarantining longer after a known sickness is a good idea.
What didn't make sense was you said that most of these sicknesses have a 21 day life cycle, in which case symptoms would appear within those 21 days, so a 45 day period to see if symptoms develop seems excessive (2.5x the life cycle; symptoms would surely have appeared). I assume you were talking about one of the more rare pathogens that has a longer than 21 day cycle, so symptoms possibly would not have appeared within 4 weeks.
I see that there are diseases that take longer than 2-4 weeks for symptoms to appear, so to be on the safe side you recommend the 45 days.
But most common illness will be detected within 2-4 weeks. It is a pretty safe bet, although one is still taking a gamble. You mentioned one disease that didn't develop until several months after you had your fish. No one quarantines their fish for several months, so one can never be 100% sure that the fish are healthy. 2-4 weeks makes the odds higher in one's favor; 45 days would make them higher still.
This is going to be my last post on this, unless the thread takes a different turn.
|09-29-2010 07:36 PM|
Jadelin, As I closed my post with the statement, 'this is not opinion its fact and easily verified with a little research.' The clock starts all over again after a positive ID of a problem. 30 day minimum 45 days recommended on most breeder sites also by posters with years in the biz.
It can take 21 days for some internal parasites to show, not all. Fish stressed by shipping can take 7-10 days for something to take hold then start to go south health wise. So 7-10 + 21 and that's not the life cycle on all of the stuff you don't want. A single exposure to something like Camallanus worms infecting one of your heavily planted tanks and you'll know why 45 days. Fish can be literally riddled with these worms and show no signs or effect untill triggered by an event then discharge them into your tank and the eggs can survive without a host and re-infect after 3 weeks as just one example.
I ordered 12 DDSV angels and didn't lose the first fish for several months then lost everyone of them about three days to a week apart. Lost all the other angels in that tank too. I will treat all new arrivals now with Flubendazole 10% powder, Levamisole HCl powder then count a 30 day period.
Gram negative bacteria in 14 panda cory's and I have the last two in a 10g quantine tank that won't start they're 30 day clock until the last Maracyn II dose Friday. This started 8/19/10. From the last death then from the last treatment I won't count any time. I can link you to a post by a breeder in Colorado that was wiped out by a 'healthy fish' that sat in a holding tank for 3 weeks prior to being placed in his fish room.
If its just one tank, cheap fish, stuff you don't mind losing your choice.
I can't disagree strongly enough when you say that what I say "doesn't make sense" Lightning doesn't always strike but, the risk is there.
|09-29-2010 07:14 PM|
|monty67||Yeah, i hate to say but it was a box store so i'm gonna go the 2 to 4 weeks assuming they stay healthy, the fish look really good, are active and no sign of anything wrong, the tank was really clean too. Seems like the times i've just thrown fish into the tank and something's shown up, a fungus or ich, it's shown up within a week of the introduction so 2 to 4 weeks sounds sufficient for healthy looking fish.|
|09-29-2010 06:48 PM|
Originally Posted by wkndracer View Post
Obviously if the fish is sick you're going to quarantine longer. 2-4 weeks gives you long enough to see if the fish is sick.
EDIT: I think that we're talking about slightly different things. I assume now that you mean that if the fish is sick you should quarantine minimum 30 days. But what other people are saying is that 2-4 weeks and NO symptoms generally means that the fish is okay. Quarantine for verified sick fish vs quarantine for new and possibly sick fish.
|09-29-2010 06:25 PM|
I do not know why people keep posting 2-4 weeks?
30 days is the minimum quarantine for most nasty's based on a 21 day life cycle. Protozoa, Nematodes, and lots of the bacterial/fungal infections require time before symptoms will be indicated. To be as sure as possible not to infect an established system with anything ugly 45 day's should be your required stay time in isolation. Anything less includes risk period. This is not opinion its fact and easily verified with little research.
|09-29-2010 06:01 PM|
|stewardwildcat||2-4 weeks is a good quarantine period. It really depends on the source where you got the fish. If it was a big box store then 100% you should keep a 4 week quarantine. If it was a personal transaction and you trust the persons tank where you got the fish then you should be able to put them in almost immediately. Personally, if it came from a store it needs to be quarantined.|
|09-29-2010 05:56 PM|
|monty67||oh, that's a bummer! The kido will be upset, well, she'd probably be more upset if they got everyone in the tank sick so maybe not such a bummer. Thanks for the info!|
|09-29-2010 05:34 PM|
|lauraleellbp||2 weeks minimum and I usually go for 4 weeks minimum.|
|09-29-2010 05:31 PM|
How long for new fish in the holding tank?
So i just picked up a couple good looking female twinbar platies. I've got them sitting in the hospital/holding tank just to make sure they don't break out in ich or something before placing them in the main tank. It's just a 10 gal with heater and filter and light, i placed a big tablespoon of Aquarium salt in the tank a few nights ago.
The tank i got them from looked good so i'm wondering what a good time frame would be to hold them before moving them over. This is actually the first time i've used a holding tank for new fish.