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  Topic Review (Newest First)
01-12-2013 02:18 PM
etgregoire Great advice. I was also thinking of putting a few pouches of panty hose or some other kind of nylon pouch with old gravel in the new setup for a week or 2. This way the bacteria is there but the gravel can be removed easily.
01-12-2013 06:11 AM
Diana No matter which substrate you want to use, getting a fishless cycle going before you move and including some of that substrate in the bucket is a good idea. I would also include some filter media, sponge, bio noodles or whatever.
Do not bother making the substrate layer too deep, the bacteria will not grow in the lower area, not enough oxygen.

When you set up the new tank put the rest of the substrate in first and use the cycled media from the fishless cycle on top. Again, the bacteria will not survive deep under the substrate. Depending on the size of the particles about 1/4" to 1/2" deep is about the max.

If you start with no source of bacteria the fishless cycle will take 3 weeks.
If you do a few water changes and add the mulm and dirty water to the bucket there is a small bacteria population in that, but not very much.
If you add some of the media from a cycled filter that is the best source of bacteria.

Read about the fishless cycle. To grow bacteria you need to feed them.
01-11-2013 05:16 PM
etgregoire I don't have a complete list going, I just feel like I have found a number of things that I thought would have been important to include in the pro/cons. Like I don't think any of them mention anything about the substrates causing Ph shifts, and some do.
01-11-2013 05:52 AM
Smitty06 I feel there is nothing else to really fill in, in that substrate sticky. What else do you want to be put into it.
01-06-2013 01:59 AM
plantedtankfan +1 on the Eco complete. Love that substrate.
01-05-2013 03:57 PM
etgregoire Thanks guys.

Beer don't worry about pictures - was just curious to see your tank if you had any already up. Thanks though!
01-05-2013 03:37 PM
Originally Posted by etgregoire View Post
Thanks wkndracer... I've read this but I just think there is a lot of info lacking here.
While the thread wanders a bit with opinion a couple times reading the follow up posts the details are there in the sticky thread.
Originally Posted by Beer View Post
Black Diamond is a media blasting material.
Originally Posted by etgregoire View Post
Cool. That is one I've been considering. I think it looks cool. Do you have any photos posted online of your setup?
A few others had posted about using it so I dug the net finding details and have loaded 8 tanks using coal slag (Black Diamond, Black Beauty blasting media).
Photos and details about using it in my journal threads although most have a soil base layer.
01-05-2013 02:59 PM
Hilde When I was thinking of moving to Florida I was researching the same thing. Seemed to me using substrates from the pet store would have been easier to set up but would cause problems. Had decided sticking with dirt and topping with sand would be less stressful for fish.

In my tanks I put reptile coconut bark on the bottom. For it prevents smelly air pocket from developing. Then mix some potting soil and top soil. Next tank using Hydroponics potting soil and Scott's top soil. For sand I found river sand from landscaper needs very little rinsing. Mostly just sift the larger pieces out. Found after a year the ferts peat out thus added DIY root tabs to established tank.

On 1 thread read 1 saved the mulm from the bottom of the tank when emptying for seeding the substrate. Many I have read just seed the filter with old media.
01-05-2013 02:55 PM
Beer Unfortunately I don't. I am not home right now, so I can't take any pictures. Best I could do is an iPhone picture on Wednesday. I'm sure there are some pictures in the tank journal section or in this section of the forum.
01-05-2013 02:26 PM
etgregoire Cool. That is one I've been considering. I think it looks cool. Do you have any photos posted online of your setup?
01-05-2013 02:25 PM
Beer Black Diamond is a media blasting material. As the name indicates, it is black. It is almost a glass like material. There are different grades, which correlate to different grain sizes from really fine to a fairly coarse sand. It's inert and works well for me. And it is pretty cheap; I think around $10 for a 40lb bag. If you don't mind the root tabs, it's a pretty good way to go. I've had it for the past year or so with no issues. Just rinse it first and you should be good to go.

You could start it in a bucket with a fish-less cycle a few weeks to a month before moving. If you seed it by squeezing a filter sponge into the bucket, you may be able to cycle it in a week or so. You could then transport the fish and plants in the bucket(s) and help minimize the stress to the fish if it is a long move. Just lay a base layer in the tank and then transfer the substrate from the bucket as the top layer in the tank. The cycle, if there is one, should be really quick.
01-04-2013 09:28 PM
etgregoire Thanks wkndracer... I've read this but I just think there is a lot of info lacking here. I brought up in another thread, which didn't grow legs at all - that maybe the sticky needs updating. I feel like there could be more input could be added to each of the categories - the short statements leave a lot to the imagination. The more I read and research, the more questions I have and more info I find that seems important but isn't included... Oh well I guess you can't complain because we have such a great resource as it is here already!
01-04-2013 08:03 PM
01-04-2013 04:30 PM
etgregoire Thanks Diana! Once again you are a wealth of knowledge!! I will do some more reading about Eco Complete. I do EI dosing and root tabs now, so I am comfortable continuing with that process.

I know sometimes people do some nutrient additives when they are setting up. Would you recommend anything like that, or is root tabs and EI still a good option?

As far as moving the tank... I did last time have a very successful move (although I was not swapping out the substrate.) I do not recall if I did water testing, I'm sure I did. I didn't loose any of the fish in the process.

I will probably hold off on starting any sort of fishless cycle for a while (anticipating a move in June - July). As far as this process do you think that I could just take a roll of canister filter sponge material and put it in a bucket with water from the aquarium on a water change prior to the move? Do I need to keep "feeding" the bacteria with anything? How long before the move should this be done?

01-04-2013 03:20 AM
Diana Substrates that cause a minimum of water chemistry issues:
Eco Complete. Occasionally I still hear of a bag that raises the pH of the water. This is rare. I would trust it to be inert in the senses that you are asking about. It will hold nutrients for the plants. (Cationic Exchange Capacity) You do need to add those nutrients, of course.
Pool filter sand. This has no CEC, and is almost always light in color. A bit better than gravel, but not by much.
Pebble Tek and similar materials. Inert, and you can get all sorts of colors. It is very dense, so it will hold plants down, but really is just a glorified sand.
Flourite has a large product line, and it is worth looking into. Several products are highly thought of for planted tanks, high CEC and dense enough to hold the plants down well until they root.

Acceptable water chemistry changes:
If you are keeping soft water fish and do not mind that the substrate can remove the KH, then Safe-T-Sorb and its relatives would be a great choice. You can add fish pretty much right away. Turface (Landscape/ Greenskeeper product) is similar, but I do not like the color choices now available. High CEC, and I like the soft, natural color of Safe-T-Sorb. These materials tend to be a bit light weight, though.

If you are keeping hard water fish and want the benefits of a substrate that raises KH, GH and pH then coral sand is OK, but is light in color.


You know ahead of time that you are moving.
Not all the nitrifying bacteria is going to survive the move, especially when you are going to swap out the substrate at the same time.
Start now:
Get a 5 gallon bucket or similar tub and do a fishless cycle with any sort of media that will grow bacteria. This will give you a big reserve of nitrifying bacteria that you can add to the tank when you move and set it up. Cheaper than buying bacteria in a bottle, and you know it is working!
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