The Planted Tank Forum - Reply to Topic
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > General Planted Tank Forums > General Planted Tank Discussion > Anyone with biology knowledge: boiling or baking to kill Mycobacteria/Fish TB?

Thread: Anyone with biology knowledge: boiling or baking to kill Mycobacteria/Fish TB? Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
02-14-2012 08:43 PM
FlyingShawn
Quote:
Originally Posted by mallorieGgator View Post
I just know that I work with bacteria daily and the only sure-fire way we destroy it is in an autoclave.
I understand that's what you use and it's probably the "best" method, but do you have any reason to believe that a "dry heat" process liked the one I linked to above wouldn't also be effective? Yes, it'd require more heat and take significantly longer (which is why an autoclave is the preferred method), but I couldn't find anything that would imply that it wouldn't work altogether.
02-14-2012 08:39 PM
FlyingShawn
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasCichlid View Post
Obviously you are pretty worried about it. Fish TB is not a joke. Why not have some peace of mind and just get a new setup? Bleach the tank, and start completely over. Your biggest culprits will be the filter materials, hardscape and substrate. With the amount of work and worry you have put into this, your opportunity costs have probably already exceeded actual costs of purchasing the replacement bits you need.
Unfortunately, a completely new setup isn't an option due to cost reasons.

By the time you factor in the time/labor to do a full tear-down of the system and purchasing/preparing new components (ex: rinsing Flourite), the actual time difference between a "cleaned" setup and a "new" setup isn't that substantial. The only real way it'd make a difference was to replace the tank itself (rather than the components), but since it's a 52gal flat-back hex and not a standard 55gal, even that doesn't make sense economically.

Even then, I don't make enough for my "lost time" opportunity cost to make the difference (contrary to what most believe, flying isn't very lucrative: airline pilots start out around 20k and it doesn't go up quickly from there)
02-14-2012 08:27 PM
FlyingShawn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chlorophile View Post
And let me tell you those training videos are awful.
I had to get my pesticide handler/worker training a few weeks ago and then I decided never to handle pesticides because they made it clear that you're going to get sick and get cancer and get nerve damage =[
I've seen enough training videos to know how painful they are, and these sound much worse than the ones I've been subjected to!
02-14-2012 08:26 PM
FlyingShawn
Quote:
Originally Posted by DogFish View Post
This seems to contradict that http://textbookofbacteriology.net/control_3.html

I can understand the consistency & effectiveness of the autoclave. I don't understand without documented study of how to destroy Mycobacterium marinum, how can we say that Boiling at 220 or heat in a oven at 200 is absolutely not going to work?
Although an autoclave would seem to be the best method, I'm afraid I don't have access to one.

Take a look at the "Dry Heat" section of this article:
Wikipedia - Sterilization (microbiology)

Yes, I know it's Wikipedia, but after doing a LOT of other searching online, the other sources I could find seemed to be consistent with what it said: A "standard" dry heat application is 160C/320F for 2 hours (starting after the item is thoroughly heated), with some sources recommending closer to 6 hours. It also seems that increasing the temp by 10C roughly halves the required time.

To be safe, I'm thinking of more like 400-450 F for a couple hours. For the substrate, I'd only do 25% at a time to make sure it's thoroughly heated in a reasonable amount of time.

I've also seen references to an "intermittent boiling" process that's designed to kill spores by boiling for 30 minute increments spaced 24 hours apart for several days. The idea is that the end of each heat cycle encourages the bacteria to come out of their spore-stage, so the next heat cycle kills them. I'm thinking of using this method for a couple of irreplaceable decorations that I'm not sure would be safe at the temperatures used in the dry heat method above.
02-14-2012 03:51 PM
mallorieGgator I just know that I work with bacteria daily and the only sure-fire way we destroy it is in an autoclave.
02-14-2012 03:24 PM
TexasCichlid Obviously you are pretty worried about it. Fish TB is not a joke. Why not have some peace of mind and just get a new setup? Bleach the tank, and start completely over. Your biggest culprits will be the filter materials, hardscape and substrate. With the amount of work and worry you have put into this, your opportunity costs have probably already exceeded actual costs of purchasing the replacement bits you need.
02-14-2012 02:40 PM
DogFish
Quote:
Originally Posted by mallorieGgator View Post
Unfortunately, heat as in boiling or baking won't work.
This seems to contradict that http://textbookofbacteriology.net/control_3.html

I can understand the consistency & effectiveness of the autoclave. I don't understand without documented study of how to destroy Mycobacterium marinum, how can we say that Boiling at 220 or heat in a oven at 200 is absolutely not going to work?
02-14-2012 02:23 PM
mallorieGgator Unfortunately, heat as in boiling or baking won't work. You would have to autoclave everything (121.21 degrees celcius) for about 90 minutes to be 100% sure you killed it. If it forms spores, you will have to be careful about even using chemicals as some bacteria's spore can actually resist things such as bleach and alcohol. I know with bacillus bacteria they form spores and contaminate a lot of things in the micro lab I used to work in. If we heated a sample to less than 81 celcius, then bacillus would live in a spore form but everything else that was non-spore forming would die.
02-14-2012 01:20 PM
DogFish
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverStocked View Post
....Any parts you're not attached to should be disposed of. Substrate, for instance.


I'd bleach out the tank & filter. I can't believe much would survive a boil or a bake at 200 degrees.

Sometimes practical is the better path than OCD. If you need to spend $30 in meds& chemicals to save a $3 pc of drift wood, the math on that really doesn't make much sense.
02-13-2012 10:41 PM
kwheeler91 I would ditch all things except the tank and filter housings, sterilize tank and filters, replace media and everything else including substrate, wood, plants, fish. I know its a pain but I have heard fish tb can be contracted by humans. Even if thats not the case you dont want a reoccurence once you get set up again. There are many generous members here who might be able help you get back on your feet.
02-13-2012 10:31 PM
Chlorophile
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistergreen View Post
It's also toxic to you. You need training to handle the stuff.
And let me tell you those training videos are awful.
I had to get my pesticide handler/worker training a few weeks ago and then I decided never to handle pesticides because they made it clear that you're going to get sick and get cancer and get nerve damage =[
02-13-2012 10:16 PM
mistergreen
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingShawn View Post
Regardless of which chemical I use, I'm still concerned about it soaking into driftwood or the lava rocks and either taking excessively long to soak back out or potentially being toxic to the tank.
It's also toxic to you. You need training to handle the stuff.
02-13-2012 10:12 PM
mistergreen We're not going to find an autoclave cheaply. Try a pressure cooker.
02-13-2012 09:58 PM
Sindawe
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistergreen View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycobacterium_marinum



I'm pretty sure 100C will kill it.
A quick search turns up this article that indicates Mycobacterium marinum is a spore forming organism.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2705590/

Its been awhile since I worked in the Biosciences, but IIRC you're going to need to autoclave soft materials like drift wood at 121 Celcius, 15 PSI pressure for not less than 20 minutes to get effective sterilzation of spores.
02-13-2012 09:43 PM
mistergreen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycobacterium_marinum

Quote:
The inhibition of growth of M. marinum at 37C
I'm pretty sure 100C will kill it.
This thread has more than 15 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012