Newbie Lighting Question

DocG · 08-13-2003, 02:26 PM

Hello everybody,

I am somewhat new to freshwater tanks. I have a little more experience with saltwater (only 1.5 years). I have had a 10 g freshwater tank on my desk in my office for about 7 months now and I want to convert it into a planted tank. I went out and made a diy compact hood with 26 W of 6500K compact lighting (2.6 W/gallon). This is OK but not good enough for me so I am putting in a 14W fluorescent fixture as well. This will give me 40W (4.0 W/gallon - Oh Yeah). Now the question I have is I have 2 bulbs sitting around that have not been used yet. I want to know which is the best bulb to use:

1) Hagen aqua-glo
2) Aquarium products Triton

Also: How does the addition of plants into the tank effect the bio-load capacity of the tank?

Minders · 08-13-2003, 04:04 PM

I'm not the best person to speak to with regards to lighting, as I am trying to sort my own tank out in this respect! However, I do have AquaGlow tubes (2 x 36", 30w tubes) over my 60gallon. They're fine for me as lights, but the current wattage is insufficient for my tank (this is my current challenge to overcome!). Other people will get into colour spectrums, etc, but I really don't get into it that far. Someone else can help you with that one.

Now, when you ask about the bioload, do you mean how many fish you can put in if you have plants? Or just in general what effect does having plants have on water chemistry?

Plants have a lot of different effects on a tank, apart from aesthetics. (again, some people may know more, but what follows is my own understanding) First of all, they provide another surface for bacteria to colonise on - this helps with the ongoing consumption of ammonia and nitrite - plenty of bacteria to keep these things under control.

One thing that all aquarium keepers must deal with themselves, however, is nitrate, as there is no bacteria present to "eat" it like there is for ammonia and nitrite. Plants, however, do consume nitrate as food, so in that respect, they have the effect of naturally reducing the build-up of nitrates in the tank, which is a good thing. The more plants, the more effect you'll see in this respect. My tapwater comes out at 20ppm, but my tank is generally lower than that because the plants strip the nitrates out of the water for food.

Plants also effect gases within the aquarium too. They use and produce CO2. This is something that you should keep an eye on as CO2, once dissolved in water, can cause fluctuations in your pH, which should be avoided. Most people who are serious about planted tanks will use additional CO2 in their tank (there are various ways to do this). But you must be aware of your General Hardness (GH) and Carbonate Hardness (KH) so that you can be aware of the buffering capacity of your water against the effects of CO2. I have a 60 gallon tank with plants and a CO2 unit. This has not effected my pH at all, but then I live in a hard water area which gives my water a lot of buffering capacity.

Remember also, that decaying plants produce ammonia and waste just like the fish and excess food, etc. So keeping up with that is important to the overall health of your tank.

I'm sure there's loads more you should know, but these are the main issues that I have had to deal with regarding plants. Someone else can probably give you more information that will also help you in your quest for planted tank glory.

On a side issue, I have learned that any plants with purple/red colours to their leaves need a lot of light, so that is worth bearing in mind. Also, your fish will adore you for providing them with plants to swim amongst. My tank changed entirely with the first additions of plants. It was only a couple bunches of cabomba at the time, but gosh, what a difference it made not only to the look of the tank but also to the overall appearance and behaviour of the fish. They really took off once the plants were there. I think it just made them feel a bit more secure, etc.

Good luck!

Wasserpest · 08-13-2003, 04:21 PM

Great response, Minders. Two (debatable) things I would like to add...

Once you have reached a certain light intensity, the exact type and spectrum of the bulb is not that important, as plants can adapt.

And second, when increasing the light intensity you influence the whole system. First, your plants will show an amazing growth. Then they will collapse because they are out of food. So you need to look at the nutrient side (macros, micros, CO2) as well. Especially for smaller tanks this can be hard to balance.

DocG · 08-13-2003, 04:53 PM

Wow. Thanks for the replies. I found out a lot of good stuff.

As far as the nutrients go. This is what I have:
A 1" bed of onyx sand by seachem
http://mops.ca/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/...672+1060794429
And I am planning to add another inch of Flourite by seachem
http://mops.ca/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/...672+1060795163
I also have a Plant-Gro CO2 system by Hagen
http://mops.ca/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/...2f4+1060794582

Wasserpest: How do you maintain this balance that you are talking about. What parameters do I test for. Is the soil and the CO2 enough or do I have to add more.

Minders: By bioload I meant how many fish (or inches of fish) can I safely keep. However the information you provided was very useful and I thank you both very much for your reply.

Wasserpest · 08-13-2003, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocG

Wasserpest: How do you maintain this balance that you are talking about. What parameters do I test for. Is the soil and the CO2 enough or do I have to add more.

Initially it will be enough. If you want a really dense jungle, you will need to look into fertilizer dosing. The problem is to get this balanced in a small tank as yours. The small water volume can be depleted as well as overdosed quickly.

Perhaps you can read through some of the threads in the Nano section, this should give you some better info as I don't have experience with high-light nanos.

digger · 08-13-2003, 05:53 PM

In my moderately planted 10G I currently have
1 flag fish
1 Siamese Algea Eater
1 Ottocinclus
3 Corydoras catfish
5 white-skirt tetras
1 1" apple snail.

The biggest consideration in the small tank is hiding places and territories. None of my fish are very territorial, so no problems there. If you had some larger fish or semi-aggressive fish I wouldn't pack em so tightly. With weekely water changes and moderatly planting fish waste shouldn't be too much of a concern.

Minders · 08-14-2003, 03:10 PM

Ditto what Digger said. I'm not one for adhering strictly to the 1" of fish per gallon, as it does vary depending on the type of fish, especiallly territorial fish. If you're just going for display, a decent sized school of Neon/Cardinal Tetras, or Harlequin Rasboras, etc, look amazing, especially in a planted tank. But you might be more of a dwarf cichlid enthusiast, in which case the numbers you could safely keep (with respect to territories) would be much reduced. But even in that instance, a couple of dwarf cichlids (rams, apistos, etc) would be stunning in their own little leafy territory. It's all down to what you want to see when you look at your tank.

08-13-2003, 04:21 PM	#3 (permalink)
Wasserpest Born to be mild (View User Tanks) PTrader: (74/100%) Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Monterey, CA Posts: 10,919	Great response, Minders. Two (debatable) things I would like to add... Once you have reached a certain light intensity, the exact type and spectrum of the bulb is not that important, as plants can adapt. And second, when increasing the light intensity you influence the whole system. First, your plants will show an amazing growth. Then they will collapse because they are out of food. So you need to look at the nutrient side (macros, micros, CO2) as well. Especially for smaller tanks this can be hard to balance. __________________ All my tanks Cheap Autodosing Cheap Water Change Cheap Filter Acrylic Filter Pipes The Wasser-Controller

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08-13-2003, 02:26 PM	#1 (permalink)
DocG Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Sarnia, Ontario, Canada Posts: 7	Hello everybody, I am somewhat new to freshwater tanks. I have a little more experience with saltwater (only 1.5 years). I have had a 10 g freshwater tank on my desk in my office for about 7 months now and I want to convert it into a planted tank. I went out and made a diy compact hood with 26 W of 6500K compact lighting (2.6 W/gallon). This is OK but not good enough for me so I am putting in a 14W fluorescent fixture as well. This will give me 40W (4.0 W/gallon - Oh Yeah). Now the question I have is I have 2 bulbs sitting around that have not been used yet. I want to know which is the best bulb to use: 1) Hagen aqua-glo 2) Aquarium products Triton Also: How does the addition of plants into the tank effect the bio-load capacity of the tank?

08-13-2003, 04:04 PM	#2 (permalink)
Minders Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bristol, England Posts: 54	I'm not the best person to speak to with regards to lighting, as I am trying to sort my own tank out in this respect! However, I do have AquaGlow tubes (2 x 36", 30w tubes) over my 60gallon. They're fine for me as lights, but the current wattage is insufficient for my tank (this is my current challenge to overcome!). Other people will get into colour spectrums, etc, but I really don't get into it that far. Someone else can help you with that one. Now, when you ask about the bioload, do you mean how many fish you can put in if you have plants? Or just in general what effect does having plants have on water chemistry? Plants have a lot of different effects on a tank, apart from aesthetics. (again, some people may know more, but what follows is my own understanding) First of all, they provide another surface for bacteria to colonise on - this helps with the ongoing consumption of ammonia and nitrite - plenty of bacteria to keep these things under control. One thing that all aquarium keepers must deal with themselves, however, is nitrate, as there is no bacteria present to "eat" it like there is for ammonia and nitrite. Plants, however, do consume nitrate as food, so in that respect, they have the effect of naturally reducing the build-up of nitrates in the tank, which is a good thing. The more plants, the more effect you'll see in this respect. My tapwater comes out at 20ppm, but my tank is generally lower than that because the plants strip the nitrates out of the water for food. Plants also effect gases within the aquarium too. They use and produce CO2. This is something that you should keep an eye on as CO2, once dissolved in water, can cause fluctuations in your pH, which should be avoided. Most people who are serious about planted tanks will use additional CO2 in their tank (there are various ways to do this). But you must be aware of your General Hardness (GH) and Carbonate Hardness (KH) so that you can be aware of the buffering capacity of your water against the effects of CO2. I have a 60 gallon tank with plants and a CO2 unit. This has not effected my pH at all, but then I live in a hard water area which gives my water a lot of buffering capacity. Remember also, that decaying plants produce ammonia and waste just like the fish and excess food, etc. So keeping up with that is important to the overall health of your tank. I'm sure there's loads more you should know, but these are the main issues that I have had to deal with regarding plants. Someone else can probably give you more information that will also help you in your quest for planted tank glory. On a side issue, I have learned that any plants with purple/red colours to their leaves need a lot of light, so that is worth bearing in mind. Also, your fish will adore you for providing them with plants to swim amongst. My tank changed entirely with the first additions of plants. It was only a couple bunches of cabomba at the time, but gosh, what a difference it made not only to the look of the tank but also to the overall appearance and behaviour of the fish. They really took off once the plants were there. I think it just made them feel a bit more secure, etc. Good luck!

08-13-2003, 04:53 PM	#4 (permalink)
DocG Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Sarnia, Ontario, Canada Posts: 7	Wow. Thanks for the replies. I found out a lot of good stuff. As far as the nutrients go. This is what I have: A 1" bed of onyx sand by seachem http://mops.ca/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/...672+1060794429 And I am planning to add another inch of Flourite by seachem http://mops.ca/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/...672+1060795163 I also have a Plant-Gro CO2 system by Hagen http://mops.ca/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/...2f4+1060794582 Wasserpest: How do you maintain this balance that you are talking about. What parameters do I test for. Is the soil and the CO2 enough or do I have to add more. Minders: By bioload I meant how many fish (or inches of fish) can I safely keep. However the information you provided was very useful and I thank you both very much for your reply.

08-13-2003, 05:53 PM	#6 (permalink)
digger Planted Tank Enthusiast (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 519	In my moderately planted 10G I currently have 1 flag fish 1 Siamese Algea Eater 1 Ottocinclus 3 Corydoras catfish 5 white-skirt tetras 1 1" apple snail. The biggest consideration in the small tank is hiding places and territories. None of my fish are very territorial, so no problems there. If you had some larger fish or semi-aggressive fish I wouldn't pack em so tightly. With weekely water changes and moderatly planting fish waste shouldn't be too much of a concern.

08-14-2003, 03:10 PM	#7 (permalink)
Minders Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bristol, England Posts: 54	Ditto what Digger said. I'm not one for adhering strictly to the 1" of fish per gallon, as it does vary depending on the type of fish, especiallly territorial fish. If you're just going for display, a decent sized school of Neon/Cardinal Tetras, or Harlequin Rasboras, etc, look amazing, especially in a planted tank. But you might be more of a dwarf cichlid enthusiast, in which case the numbers you could safely keep (with respect to territories) would be much reduced. But even in that instance, a couple of dwarf cichlids (rams, apistos, etc) would be stunning in their own little leafy territory. It's all down to what you want to see when you look at your tank.

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