New Plant Store **help Wanted**

[MFlodin]

Tom;

I hope this goes well for you. I for one will visit your store. My comment would be about the stock. Other than elodera, swords and the occasional water sprite (which I think is a great plant) I find extremely limited selections in all LFS. I look forward to a greater selection from a specialty store. Be sure to include tanks of harlequin rasboras, cardinal fish ottos and SAE's as well.

Best

[Sponsors]

[figgy]

So....Fishmaster,

gds's idea for an on line journal is SO KEWL that I'd pay you to post it!!! Besides, if you do it, you'll have a bunch of knowledgeable employess here on the board who'll work for nothing!!!

Photo JournalPhotoJournalI votephotoJournal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

figley

[eds]

Was just over at the caga site and didn't see anything from you.
I really think you should reach out to these guys, as they may be the most active and organized group of aqua-gardeners in the area. A new member was recently talking about making things more active, with more frequent meetings, community outreach, and the like.
I assume you've checked the biggies in the area, from Westchester to Milwaukee, to see what works and what doesn't.

[fishmasterno1_2]

WOW you all posted a ton of usefull info!!!! Please post links to any sites you are trying to get me to see (CAGA). I am not very good at searching the net.
Ok listen please.
PLEASE STOP SENDING ME PM'S TRYING TO GET ME TO BUY YOUR PLANTS ONLY it's not going to happen<-----Had a few do this I want to be open about this so please do NOT send me pm's. POST IT HERE FOR ALL TO SEE.. Thanks a million

Figgy--I am going to keep a photo log. I am having trouble picking a name.I think having Diana Walsted there for signing on opening day would be a huge idea. Not sure opening day for sure I will post that later. Oh and I'm with you salt is so overated.

Indy---I plan on having 10 such tanks with swords and guppys. I also plan on having 10 more tanks with more expensive rare livebearers.

gsd---I am with you 100% on the photo journal. I can see that I must keep some hard to kill and cheapo stuff. btw that is what is going to be in the pre-set combos.

Biscut--I know I must sell for profit. That is what business is about afterall. However I believe I must protect my livestock from certain death by making sure I don't sell to someone who is unwilling to provide good care. It is also my right not to sell top dollar (rare) items to a newbe who has no clue how to care for it. I am going to use it. I love the idea of payin to feed a huge fish. I am going to try that with a huge snakehead provided I can legally keep one in the store. It will be educational for people to see one of those. Every few weeks people around here get stories of how these fish are big eaters thus making them BAD for the ecosystem. It would help if fisherman knew what they looked like so as not to throw them back.

mflodin-I would welcome you to my store! If you need some plants give me a call. my number is posted already. I have alot of different kinds. On a sad note I will not be stocking SAE's. They can be a very bad fish when they get big. I saw one with my own two eyes kill $5000 worth of discus before me and the owner knew what was killing the fish. I had to sit and watch the tank for a whole day-then at 3am I saw it stuck to a discus like a leach. the discus died the next day as did the 5 inch SAE. ottos don't do this. I will be stocking those.

eds--PLEASE POST THAT LINK I do want to reach out to them.

[eds]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/caga/?yguid=67470167
This link should work.
It is a Yahoo group, so you could find it by just going to Yahoo, going to their groups, and searching caga.
Only members can post, but it is just a matter of sending a message and letting them know you are from the area and interested in fish and plants.
Good luck.

[shalu]

Originally Posted by fishmasterno1_2

ottos don't do this. I will be stocking those.

tell it to my ottos, hahaha. They were fine for the first 6 months, and then they found out discus slime coat was tasty. I had to remove the offenders. It was probably a sign that my tank had too little algae for the number of ottos. They stopped sucking on discus after I removed about half of them from my 100 gallon.

[fishmasterno1_2]

Never saw a otto do that!! Ok, so I won't be stocking those eather. It's starting to look like I will have to stock tons of snails and shrimp for algae control. That's ok I like them better anyway.

[Robert H]

Retail stores have a lot of costs associated with them, and as a result it is more difficult to lower your prices and compete with online stores. The overhead can be a killer to the lfs owner. The general rule of thumb for a smaller establishment in the pet business (not including large chains like Petsmart) is that items for sale are generally marked up 100% over wholesale. This is a huge factor and problem for the lfs because the online seller only has to worry about inventory and minimal overhead. If you can operate your business by staying as close to the prices of the online sellers plus whatever they are charging for shipping, then you should be OK. Even if you go slightly above the online totals, people won't mind as much because they will have the convenience of buying everything from you and they will not have to worry about shipping issues or possible failures and the hassle of returning items.

It is impossible for independent stores to compete with the big online dealers like Big als, Drs Foster & Smith, Pet solutions, and so forth, unless you literally buy each item by the truckload direct from the manufacturer. And the idea that retail marks up 100 to 300 % is a myth. To understand why you need to understand the distribution channel. Major distributors buy items from the manufacturers at 40 to 50 percent off the suggested retail price. They turn around and sell it to the retailers for 20 to 30 percent off list price. The largest distributors sometimes get additional discounts depending on the item and may work on a profit margin of less than ten percent. The big online super stores often sell items for less than the retail stores can buy them from the distributors for. They get better deals in some cases from the manufacturer than the distributor does. Small internet stores, particularly home based businesses without overhead expenses may only sell a few points above their cost to try and build volume, or a name for themselves. thats what Glass Gardens was doing.

Central Pet and Supply is the nations largest pet distributor. There are a few other regional disributors. Hawaiin Marine is the largest distributor for Eheim and other imported products, but as a store you will still pay more for what they are sold on the internet for to the end user. Equipment has low profit margins, at least brand names do.

The super chain stores don't have the lowest prices on everything. Its kinda the Walmart strategey. They advertise low end low priced items with a generic name to bring people in and then have higher priced higher margin items with extra features right next to the low end stuff on the same shelf. In the pet trade it sometimes the opposite, the brand names have smaller margins and the generic stuff has larger margins.

Small lesser known manufacturers often cut out the disributor all together and sell direct to the retailer, but they will also sell to anyone on the internet, and the big internet guys still undercut everyone else.

Sound confusing? It gives me a headache.

Your biggest overhead is electricity and insurance. You electric bill will be astronomical. Start up cost will be high with inventory, retail display units, and racks for the tanks. Setting up a plumbing and filtration system for all the tanks will be a challenge. I have one word for you, SUMP. Lighting will be crutial and you will have to be sure the current system can handle it. You will need a electrician to properly assess it.

Fish foods have high margins. You can go with brand name mass produced food like Tetra, Hagen, Hilkari, etc, bulk foods you can private label with your own name on them, or gourme specialty foods like Omega, New life whatever its called from Pablo Teepot, and others put out by well known hobbyists/writers like Jack Wardley, Marc Weiss and so forth. Specialty foods puts you a cut above the norm, like selling Krispy cremes.

Same thing with plants. Common species come from Florida Aquatic Nurseries thru their distributors. Everyone has those. The Krispy creme plants come from importers. Finding someone who has these plants and really knows much about them takes a little work.

Dos the place have a back room? With large utility sinks? Or drainage holes in a cement floor? Room for quaritine tanks? There are a ton of things to consider and plan for. Is this open enough for you? Or did you fall asleep after reading half of this?!

[fishmasterno1_2]

So from what I am getting out of this post is that I HAVE to sell the same old crap you find in petco to make money? I do not find this prospect to my liking at all. My plan was to offer all "crispy creames" as much as possible. In this area there are at least 10 petcos and 5 small lfs's. One I like the most is speciallized in livebearers. That store always has them for 3-5 times what petco does,BUT they always live when you get them home. It is this type of quality I am looking to bring to the area in regard to plants. NO-ONE around here has plants worth feeding to koi let alone putting in a display tank. It is that nitch I am looking to fill. Also it is impossible to find shrimp or good healthy fish. Most of the fish around here are so sick they die within a few weeks no matter what you do. This is why the guy selling the livebearers is still in business-the fish live. HE-or-SHE I can't tell which also breeds the fish they sell. They have no problems selling them. Actually they run out often.
PETCO---WHERE THE PETS GO TO DIE. Fish don't like being moved 5+times
I would rather not be in business then follow that immportation method of stocking the store. Oh and I never said I wanted to sell filters and equipment by fighting with the online suppliers.
What is so wrong with setting up a mostly high-end store? One where the locals here can get things most of the lfs's here won't stock. Granted they will have to pay more---which they CAN and DO for top quality.
ONE more thing you telling me to use a sump--I am going to have 2 sponge filters per tank all running off one big air compressor. Why do I need to run pipes and wiring (big $) when I can just run airline tubing? I am looking to keep each tank on it's own system. This WILL keep one fish that is sick from getting all the rest of the fish in the store sick. It is the people who IME run many many tanks off a sump that kill the most fish. EXAMPLE pet-co runs at least 9-15 tanks off one sump. The result is most of the fish are always sick or DEAD!!
Thanks for posting your thoughts Robert,however I am not going to follow your advise. I think I owe it to my customers and fish to have a store that only sells healthy stock. Regards TOM

[figgy]

I think Robert was just offering the BIG picture--he is in the biz. I think we're all just brainstorming for ideas that you can pick and choose from. I definitely think that your store could specialize in great plants and fish and some entry level set-ups an do fine.

I know my lfs guy keeps a limited inventory of tanks and equpment in the store, but orders most high end stuff on a case by case basis. Once people get their feet wet [did I say that?], they WILL want bigger tanks and co2 set-ups and will come to you either to give them suppliers on-line or to have you order it in. He also uses the local Aquarium Society members as his fish suppliers for freshwater.

two cents more...

Figs

[Bert H]

Interesting thread and interesting ideas. Here's my 2 cents worth fishmaster. To stick with the donut analogy, rather than trying to start out with a cream filled donut, why not start with a gourmet donut hole? In other words, start small, be it storefront or aspirations, but market yourself as high end planted aquatic specialties. Specialize in the high end market for people who want quality plants and a limited amount of quality livestock. Try to build a rep as the 'Mercedez' of your aquatic neighborhood. Once you start building a clientele and your reputation gets out there, then start slowly expanding.

[fishmasterno1_2]

Bert that's what I think I am going to have to do. I am thinking I can be more productive staying small. It's so expensive to start a store.

[figgy]

So....how goes the biz plan??? Should I pack the Caddy and head for Elgin?

Fig

[plantbrain]

Originally Posted by JHipkin

You are very brave. Have you thought through your marketing? A blinding flash of the obvious but it will be very important to get and keep good customers. This is not as easy as you would think. People, bless them, don't change their habits easily or quickly even for a better option.

A deeper discussion on this would no doubt bore this group so send me a PM if you want to talk more about this. I am the managing director of a direct marketing agency in San Francisco. Good luck w/ it.

James Hipkin

I think the Aqua Forest model is pretty good in SF.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[albinooscar]

Hey Tom

Any updates on this store project?
I live in Elburn which is not too far from Elgin and would be very interested in seeing it happen and maybe contribute some plants myself or any other help.
As it so happens my girlfriend has been talking about selling plants online after she seen how "easy" it is to grow them.

Ron