Newbie: Please help me set up my new 110gal

[Oreo]

Hi everybody! Sorry for the long post. Please bare with me & help me out.

Background info:

I've been keeping an over-stocked 30gal (all fish, no plants) international freshwater community tank for a couple years & now that I'm fully up to speed on how to care for my fish I've decided to upgrade to a 110gal (48"x18"x30"). With so much more space I really want to aquascape this thing to look awesome. I've got some ideas about what I'd like to do but I really need help making sure all the parts of the puzzle are going to work well together- particularly the balance between CO2 for the plants, O2 for the fish, lighting, surface agitation, and substrate.



Currently, I have this livestock that will be moving into the new tank:

• a plecco
• a clown loach
• a black ghost knife
• a 6" goldfish, & a few other small ones
• a patriot crab
• a columbian shark
• a couple other fish I can't remember the name of
• and possibly an old-fart dwarf african frog if I can get him to play nice with the others.

• In the future I'd like to add a couple newts if my LFS ever gets the ones I want back in stock.

The truth is though that my girlfriend & I really can't help ourselves when we're in the LFS, so I expect this tank to be heavily stocked with all types of compatible & incompatible fish eventually.



For light, I'm figuring on four HO-T5's for a total of 200w, or 20,000 lumens. I understand this to be a "moderate" ammount of light.

I'd like to use a mix of black onyx sand & white crushed corral sand as a substrate... if this will work ok for my plants. (Will it?)

I think this will be a moderately planted tank. I'm planning on a single large piece of driftwood as a focus with some tall plants closely around it, and some very short ground-cover plants surrounding that. I will have an artificial rock-wall background, so I definitely don't want to obscure the whole thing with the plants.

I definitely don't want to add CO2 if I can get by without it, but I will if I have to. I have a few specific questions about this though...

• Do you think I can get by without adding CO2 on this setup?

• If I must add CO2, I'm very concerned about maintaining a consistent pH for my fish. Can I? & how do I, without a lot of work? (I'm ALL about convenience & a tank that runs itself.)

• If I must add CO2, I've been told not to use surface agitation. In this case, will my fish have enough oxygen in the water? If not, what do I do about that?

Thanks for reading the whole post if you made it this far. Please do comment on anything & everything. I know my fish selection is screwy. I'm just going to have to do the best I can with that though.

[lauraleellbp]

I'll leave the fish selection pretty much alone- IMO most of those fish and critters don't belong in hobbyist fish tanks, and definitely not all together in the same tank...

If you run 216watts of T5HO you'll need pressurized CO2. No two ways around it. I'm running 162watts ATM over my 90gal and am about to remove one of my bulbs because it's just too much light. Too much light + inadequate CO2 = algae farm. If you don't want to drop $200+ for a pressurized CO2 setup then IMO you should stick with 2x54 watt T5HO fixtures.

Most people use canister filters on large planted tanks, especially if they're dosing CO2. HOB filters are fine, however, if you're not dosing CO2. I'm not dosing CO2 and run a Rena XP2 canister and an AquaClear 110 on my HOB, and this is more than adequate circulation and filtration for my 90gal low tech tank. A high tech tank (with CO2) would probably need more, however.

Sigh- I take back what I said- I can't not say anything...

The newts should be kept in their own tank. Amphibians and tropical fish don't mix, plus they're likely to be eaten by several of the bigger fish you mention.

The frog should have its own tank. Same for the crab. They have specialized needs, and are likely to eat or be eaten by the fish.

Goldfish have no place in a tropical fish tank- they need to be kept at lower temperatures, plus they produce too much waste. Last but not least, they will likely turn most of your plants into lunch.

Many pleco species also will eat plants, if not uproot/break them from their size swimming through them. Bristle, bushy-nosed, and clown plecos are some of the few exceptions.

Clown loaches, like all loaches, are social fish and need to be kept in groups.

If the colombian shark is the catfish I'm thinking of it will outgrow your tank plus eat most of the other fish along the way (not 100% with that common name, though)

It sounds like I"m being really negative- and I don't mean to be. However, if you want a good shot at a planted tank IMO you've got some decisions and priorities to decide upon first. I don't think your current plans are likely to yield you much success in the long run?

[Oreo]

I appreciate your taking the time to go over things with me- negative or not.

OK so, putting my screwy list of fish aside for a moment...

You're saying I've got too much light to go without a CO2 system, and my fish will likely damage my plants.

I've got a 30" deep tank. Are you sure that amount of light is too much?

I'm looking at this CO2 system:
http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/co...o2-system.html
Is this a good deal? & will it allow me to keep my fish happy-enough with the pH? Or would I be better to cut my light in half as you mentioned, & just use surface agitation? (I've got a beast of a DIY canister equivalent. I can do anything necessary with the water flow.)

Will the plants grow fast enough to replace foliage eaten / damaged by the fish?

[Ozymandias]

lighting get confusing when it comes to larger tank. but T5 are really powerful lights. the CO2 set up you have posted is a really good deal (good quality and such) and Orlando is really helpful when it comes to questions.

with you concern about not enough oxygen it should be pointed out that the plants produce oxygen. also for checking co2 levels you should really look into a drop checker (just search it on this forum)

For the subrate i would stay away from the coral sand i have a fealling that it is heavy in calcium and would boots you PH way up. the onyx sand is fine though and there have been some nice results from it you could also look into the Flourite black and black sand nice alternative and a bit cheaper.

with the CO2 Ph isn't always as bad as you might think as long as you keep steady peramatters and you can raise it if need be.

hope that helps and really listen to lauraleellbp with the fish a none properly stocked tank can really mess up the tank.

gold fish will eat the plants like no other

the pleco you might be ok with in such a big tank (and people have keeps them with plants) the only concern with the pleco would probably be up rootingplants, if it's a big one.

patriot crab: as i understand them like some sort of land to crawl up on (though i have never kept them)

columbian shark: if it a catfish and it gets big it will eat other fish (this is a general rule i feel for cats)

dwarf african frog: there are two type of aquatic frogs i've seen common ly sold under the name dwarf african frog. one whitch actually stays small and is fine in community tank and another that grows quite large and can eat other fish. don't know which you have so i can really say if it would work out.

clown loach: as Laureleellp said thay are social fish and like company (thay will actually school with tiger barbs) it should also be noted that thay can grow quite large.

black ghost knife: never kept them so can't comment on them (interesting fish though)

newts: most newt i've seen usally perfer colder water though i'm sure there are many warmer climate newts. newts also have the possibility i believe of being poisons (depending on species) and as Laureleellp thay can be eaten by fish.

[Ozymandias]

also you could cut that lighting in half and go for a more low teck approach with vary nice results.

[Oreo]

Sounds like I need to cut the light in half, get the fish I have moved over to the new tank, and then try my luck at what ever I can get to grow. If I'm lucky I'll find a few plants that will get the job done till some of the fish die off. I can start to migrate the tank into a more cohesive theme down the road & when that time comes I can simply add some light & the CO2 system.

Or maybe I'll just spend a bunch on the high-tech equipment & go for the gusto. LOL. it's only money right?

The coral sand does bump the pH up a bit but only at first. After a while it seems like the coral sand sorta loses it's buffering ability & starts to act very innert as far as I can tell.

About the oxygen... how much oxygen do these plants give off? Enough to support a heavily stocked tank?

[lauraleellbp]

There's a pretty big difference between a high tech and a low tech setup- so that's really the first decision you need to make.

Orlando (greenleaf) has a great reputation and will do you well if you want to go with one of his CO2 setups. If you do that, then the 4x54watt fixture would make more sense (you'll probably still have to play with photoperiods to avoid algae, but prolly can be done).

If you want to go low tech and skip the CO2, then yes- IMO 2x54watts should still support good plant growth. You might not be able to grow a carpeted foreground quickly, but there's still several species that given time would probably carpet for you.

High tech tanks are more costly, much more weekly if not daily maintance, and more difficult to balance out. Low tech setups are cheaper, much less maintenance, but the plants won't grow as quickly and some species won't grow.

There's positives and negatives either way. I'm personally biased towards low tech tanks; CO2 is nothing I've ever had any desire to mess with. I also hate trimming plants so there's no way I'd do it every week LOL

Once you've decided which setup is right for you, then you can make the rest of your equipment, stocking, and planting plans appropriately.

[lauraleellbp]

Originally Posted by Oreo

Sounds like I need to cut the light in half, get the fish I have moved over to the new tank, and then try my luck at what ever I can get to grow. If I'm lucky I'll find a few plants that will get the job done till some of the fish die off. I can start to migrate the tank into a more cohesive theme down the road & when that time comes I can simply add some light & the CO2 system.

Or maybe I'll just spend a bunch on the high-tech equipment & go for the gusto. LOL. it's only money right?

The coral sand does bump the pH up a bit but only at first. After a while it seems like the coral sand sorta loses it's buffering ability & starts to act very innert as far as I can tell.

About the oxygen... how much oxygen do these plants give off? Enough to support a heavily stocked tank?

As long as your tank has adequate water circulation (supplied by the filters and sometimes powerheads) oxygen is rarely a concern in a planted tank.

If you're looking for a list of plants that you could try under your current lighting, you should check out the list of low light plants posted at the top of the Low Tech forum.

[Oreo]

What species would give me a decent carpeted foreground with the low-tech setup you're talking about?

(edit: I will check out that list you're directing me to also.)

[Ozymandias]

dwarf or pygmy chain sword should work.

by the way was reading up on the patriot crab and it seems there scavenger so thay do eat plants

[lauraleellbp]

My personal favorite is E. tenellus 'narrow' or dwarf pygmy sword 'narrow'; grows about 2-3" and looks like grass. It's what I currently am growing as a carpet in my 90gal.

If you like a more rounded leaf, Marseila minuta or dwarf clover also can carpet in low light.

Both of these plants need time, and IMO need a substrate with a small grain size and nutrients to do best.

[Ozymandias]

i've found with the pygmy sword will litary spred under any light condition (though it really like higher light with CO2)

If you do go to low teck you might look into DIY CO2 (yeast, suger and water) it can only help the plants

[Ozymandias]

o and by this point i think you probably have a good idea of where you are going with this tank (in terms of low teck and high teck) or you're at least looking at the options. so i would really look at you stocking again this is really important in a tank.

[Oreo]

I really don't know now. This whole project has kindof exploded on me. Low-tech or high tech... I tend to want to over-do things... so high-tech has it's appeal. But I hate to maintain stuff. I just want it to work easy. So... low tech has it's appeal too.

We've fed the patriot crab both fish & banannas among other things. They seem to do really well till they molt. Then the fish always seem to kill them before their shell hardens. We're on our 3rd crab now & have only had one crab survive a molt. For that reason, I don't think we'll get another if this one dies. Still... we keep our fingers crossed. The little guy has a lot of personality.

The newts were awsome. They had a lot of personality too. We had great success with them for a few years till they died of old age. I miss those newts.

I think my ultimate dream would be a marine tank but I don't have the patience for that much maintenance. Everything Iv'e read suggests those are a lot of work.

[Ozymandias]

If you really don't want maintenance then i would go with a low tech tank. but with low tech i would really look at you stocking for because the plants won't grow at the same rate as a high tech tank. also you can have CO2 on low tech tanks by the way

sorry to hear about the crabs. if i was really going to keep them i probably would do a species only tank same with the newts.