Rams: cant get rid of the ick

[Justbeginningfish]

Help!
I have had the temp raised in the QT tank with the two new rams to 86-87 for over 7 days with 3/4 tsp salt per gallon, have added metrinidazole on days one three and 4, this seemed to do nothing so I switched to Ick Rid Ick two days ago.

I am doing 25% water changes daily as per the directions and cleaning the gravel well. The most spots I have seen are maybe 5 on the male, they will be there in the morning and then by evening be gone only to reappear in different spots by the next morning.

The female has shown no symptoms until tonight when I walked into the kitchen and saw her rubbing on the gravel I assume this means she has them in her gills since there are no visible spots.

Is this the normal course of treatment? How long will it take to start getting these under control, i see pictures of fish totally covered in Ick but mine only have a couple of spots on random places?

I was under the impression that they high temps would halt reproduction of the parasites and stop them from reattaching to the fish. Both of them are in good color, active and eating which is a good sign, but im still worried

[@marko@]

high temps INCREASE the maturation of ick, and let it reproduce SOONER. the good thing about it is, you cant get to it while it is on the fish, nor when its reproducing. you can only kill it chemically during its first stage of life when it has no cyst.

the fact that there is only a few is a very good sign. continue treatment, the fish act healthy so they should be putting up a good fight themselves. also, a UV sterilizer may kill the ick while free-floating; im not sure, but it may cure the fish in a week, and kill the remaining ick in two weeks. assuming it does kill ick of course.

[Torpedobarb]

your qt tank should be bare bottom. I would take the gravel out and keep a sponge in your main tank ready for use in the qt tank when needed. it is designed to keep the tank as clean as possible. I had to do this about 3 weeks ago.. I hope everything works out ok.

[Lnb]

You need to continue the treatment for a minimum of 7 days. I usually continue for 10 making sure that I have gotten all the cysts that may be in the gravel bed. Do vaccum the gravel everyday.

It will also appear to get worse before getting better because it is virually invisible to the eye when it first attaches it's self to the fish where it will grow into the "white dots" you see. It is only vulernable when it is free swimming. Hence the need to continue treatment even after the visual symtoms are gone.

Since higher water temps will also mean lower oxygen levels you should add an airstone to the tank.

Good luck. I have had good results with Rid-Ick.

[Justbeginningfish]

I expected to see some inprovement by 7 days of treatment, I guess I will just keep doing what Im doing and keep my fingers crossed.

I also added a bunch of hornwort from my fishless tank (I've got the stuff coming out of my ears!!) to help keep the water good and provide some cover and shade, they like to pick at it too...I will just toss it when treatment is over, it does not seem at all affected by the medication.

I agree that it should be bare bottom, but nothing I can do now about it as I am not going to stress them out by doing any major tank changes right now.

The male seems fine this morning with good color and is very active, the female looks a little washed out and she is clamping her fins, she has spent all morning hiding in her coconut shell, but did come out to eat.

Is there any benefit to feeding food laced with metridinazole which kills parasites and helps fight secondary bacterial infections? would having systemic medication help the ick die off when feeding on the fish?

[susankat]

I have talked to a few people here in the area and apparently there is a pretty resistant strain of ich going around. One person put a uv sterilizer on his tank that finally got rid of it.

I would suggest continue the treatment and if possible also use a UV, It will take awhile, but this strain is hard to get rid of.

[Justbeginningfish]

I was sort of wondering if there wasnt something extra going on, seven days of treatment should be enough to start seeing some improvement rather than getting worse.
I will look into uv sterilizers, A small one might be worth the investment as I suspect it might have saved my gourami as well when his small owie turned into flexobacter or columnaris or something nasty that didn't respond at all to medicine. I am so glad I QTd these two rams, they looked perfect when I brought them home, but they had only been at the store for a day or two so no symtoms were showing

[YSS]

Since you switched the med two days ago, you still have at least 7 more days of treaments left. I don't think metros work for ich, at least not that I know of. So, the switch was the right move. I actually have found Quick Cure by AP works very well for ich. Keep it up and it will go away.

[ColeMan]

If the meds don't work I think a UV sterilizer is your best bet for sure. Good Luck! From where is this local ich originating? Did a LFS sell a bunch of bad stock or something?

[Justbeginningfish]

it is listed as a treatment for ick, and several ick medications contain it in various amounts. i also thought the high heat and addition of salt would oftentimes work to get rid of ick without any added meds.

from the aquarium guys site:

Seachem Lab's Metronidazole treatment is the purest form of crystalline metronidazole available, and it will eradicate many of the nasty protozoan infections that commonly attack tropical fish, including Hole in the Head(hexamita), marine Ich(crytocaryon), and freshwater Ich(ichthyophthirius, or white spot disease). It's also a powerful treatment for many anaerobic bacterial diseases. Despite its potency, there's little risk of overdosage, and it is tolerated well by most

[Justbeginningfish]

I dont know anything about uv sterilizers so I am trying to do some reading, but all the ones I see are rated for very large tanks, Im looking for something to go on 10 gallon any suggestions...is this something that can be rented from anywhere like diatomaceous earth filters can?

[volatile]

Last year I unknowingly bought a neon tetra that was infected, which ended up infecting all my fish with ick. I can't remember the reason I couldn't dose the tank with rid-ick. I think it was because it wasn't safe for invertebrates (I have shrimp). So I raised the temperature to 88-90 for a week or so and all the white spots disappeared and it never came back. This was in a ADA Mini M tankk, which is about 5 gallons.

[YSS]

Also, as with volatile, for the heat treatment, I have found the temperature of 88 or higher works well. Try raising the temp a bit more if you can.

[lauraleellbp]

Sounds to me like you're doing the most you can ATM, hopefully with time and meds the ich will all be killed.

They make UV sterilizers in many different wattages for diff sized tanks, but I think 6 watts is the lowest I've seen?

If you haven't already read it, http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml is a good ich article

[@marko@]

Originally Posted by Justbeginningfish

Is there any benefit to feeding food laced with metridinazole which kills parasites and helps fight secondary bacterial infections? would having systemic medication help the ick die off when feeding on the fish?

i believe there is some kind of food with tetracyline, but i dont think that does much against parasites. not to mention that virtually everything is resistant to tetracyline by now anyway.

Originally Posted by ColeMan

If the meds don't work I think a UV sterilizer is your best bet for sure. Good Luck! From where is this local ich originating? Did a LFS sell a bunch of bad stock or something?

so i was right about a UV helping. good, since i wasnt sure.