20 20’s 75 gallon - update 11-09-2008

[20 20]

First time planted tank owner here, trying to figure out what the heck I’m doing. I’ve had tanks for about 4 years now, African cichlids, saltwater reef, but this is my first attempt at a planted tank. So, I’ve been reading a lot (a LOT) the last couple of months, and this is where I’ve gotten to so far (lousy camera, lousy photographic skills):



Here's a link to a slightly larger picture:
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...3notatedv3.jpg

Plants were put in 1 to 4 days ago. I spray painted the back of the tank with Krylon Fusion satin black. I used the same paint on the XP2 and XP3 intakes and spraybars.

Equipment
75 gallon All-Glass tank
custom made stand (bought from someone else)
XP2 and XP3 for filtration
Pressurized CO2, 10lb tank, Milwaukee regulator, Milwaukee PH controller, Rex Grigg external CO2 reactor
Flourite Black Sand substrate
External Hydor 300 watt inline heater
Red Sea drop checker
4x65 watt PC’s and 1x40 watt NO fluorescent (4 wpg)
Dry fert dosing (macro’s –n- micro’s from Rex Grigg)

Plants
Rotala sp. 'Colorata' (indica ‘red’)
Ludwigia arcuata
HC
Ludwigia Repens
Sunset Hygro
Bacopa Monneri
E. Tennelus
Rotala Rotundifolia
Rotala sp. green
Crypt. Wendtii
Narrow leaf java fern

On order is some Bacopa Carolina, it will go in the empty spot in the back left had side of the tank.

Potential fish list (none in the tank yet)
Cardinals - 18
either rummy-nose or rasbora - 18
silver hatchets - 6
Angels - 4
oto's - 6
Cories - 2

Water parameters as of last night:
PH – 7.4
Ammonia – 0
Nitrite – 0
Nitrate – 20
KH – 4
GH – 107.4

So now to the questions I can think of at the moment:

I’ve had the CO2 running for about 4 days now, and I can’t get PH down past 7.3. Based on my reading of “Chuck’s Calculator”, to get 30 ppm of CO2 I should target 6.6 as the PH based on my KH reading. The drop checker is light green, so I would think the CO2 level is at least ‘OK’. (I’m using the drop checker as the Red Sea instructions say to, using aquarium water with the regeant. I’ve got 4dKH solution on order.) Any ideas on what I’m doing wrong, or should be doing differently?

I put in the E. Tennelus (pygmy chain sword) two days ago, and the leaves are melting. Is this typical of this plant when introduced to a new tank? Should I do something different other than just wait?

I put in the Crypt Wendtii yesterday morning, and some of the leaves are melting. I’ve read that this is typical of Crypts, so should I just wait it out?

When should I start introduction the fish? A week, two weeks? I’m a bit confused about cycling in a planted tank, I’ve read some conflicting information. Some of what I’ve read is that it’s ok to put all the fish in a couple of weeks after getting the plants in the tank. Is that true? Do I wait for a true cycle, testing ammonia and nitrite until they are zero before introduction fish? If I don’t put them all in at once, is their any ‘best’ sequence?

Will cories be ok with my HC, assuming it takes root?

Will shrimp be ok with my fish stocking list? How many would be good for a tank this size, with the fish/plant stocking I’m contemplating?

I’d also appreciate any critiques or suggestions on plant selection, possible fish stocking, and general aquascaping ‘stuff’. I’ve got thick skin, so no need to be gentle!

[CobraGuppy]

Nice tank, can't wait until it evolves more and more.

About the e tennelus, I bought some too and when i put it in my tank, a lot of the leaves melted like yours. But, i kept it in there to see what would happen and already new shooters are shooting out and new plants are starting to bud while the mother plants are withering away.

I think the crypts will grow back too, i hear that they do not like being moved much.

Shrimp might be a problem because of your angels. But i think that if you have a dense enough aquascape, the shrimp will survive.

Dont know about the other questions, sorry.

Your off to a good start though! (better than i was when i started)

Btw, i love your ph controller

[@marko@]

up the bubbles per minute. and are there any waterfalls or such that would outgas CO2? also is your CO2 on a timer or ph controller? i highly reccomend the ph controller.

never kept pygmy chain swords, so i dont know.

if you move a crypt, it will melt at least a few leaves. if you remove it from rockwool (which you need to if it is in rockwool) then it often melts all the leaves; but it will grow back. actually you may see new growth before its even done melting.

you have to have a completed cycle before adding fish, so if you didnt start one with some flakes, or whatever. it will take less if you dose nitrogen for your plants (so they dont steal from the bacteria, or at least not as much). no sequence, just do it a few at a time.

never kept cories, but most likely. but from what i hear about them, wait until the HC is well established and has good root system.

shrimp will be fine, but very few if any shrimplets will survive to adulthood; just dont buy small shrimp. amano will be fine, RCS may be (i dont know if the angels will try to eat them). you probably wont see the shrimp though, they hide if there are big fish in the tank.

you bioload will be pretty good without them, but they add very little and tanks with big bioloads can be healthy too (like mine). id start with 20 or 25. if you start seeing high nitrates, give some away.

[20 20]

Thanks for the replies and answers. I run a Milwaukee PH controller. I keep upping the bubble count, I'm at maybe 4 a second. Trouble is, the rate won't stay constant, it keeps slowing down. I bought the regulator used, maybe it's bad? No waterfalls, either, but the output from the XP3 spray bar really moves the surface of the water. The XP3 is the filter with the CO2 reactor on it.

[SeaSerpant]

It looks nice right now but when i fills in it will look really beautiful. Are the ludwiga going all the way to the back on the left side? i can't really tell.

[20 20]

No, not all the way to the back. It's a bit deceiving, as the flow from the xp3 spraybar has that ludwigia leaning towards the back. I plan on putting in bacopa carolina (around 30 stems) in that empty spot at the back left.

[9am53]

I have 2 angels in a smaller (less room to hide) tank with a bunch of ghost and amano shrimp. I was wondering about the angels eating my shrimp too initially, but I was told by several members to add the shrimp after feeding time, when the angels arent looking for food, and to add the shrimp in nets directly to a heavily planted part of the tank so they can instantly hide. This will help you because the angels wont recognize the shrimps as food, if you just dropped them in they would get pounded. My amanos were shy for a couple months, but now all my shrimp come out all day long to eat and mingle, and the angels ignore them, it seems the angels are used to the shrimp as tankmates, not food.

[SeaSerpant]

Ok that explains alot.

[20 20]

Still debating the angels vs shrimp idea. In anyones opinion, do shrimp really help control algae, enough to make a dent? Don't have algae yet, and hopefully won't have any/much, but seeing as this is my first planted tank, I'm expecting the worst.

I've had probably half the crypt leaves melt away, the rest seem to be doing OK. Need to keep an eye on them.

As far as the E. Tennelus, the leaves that are melting aren't completely melting, just becoming opaque, and brown (if that makes any sense). There are a few new leaves growing on a couple of the plants. Should I take off the melting leaves, or just leave them?

I've adjusted the spraybars to be a bit lower in the tank, now there isn't nearly as much surface movement. No change in the PH, however.

[KurtG]

What is the working pressure on the regulator? You might be able to up that a bit and get a more constant bubble rate.

[20 20]

The output side started out around 10 psi, I've been upping it gradually once in a while to get the bubble count up, which happens for a while, but then drops down again. Right now I think it's at around 20 psi, but I'm at work and can't verify that. There's a reply from Milwaukee that got posted in one of the threads in the FAQ section with a method to try and get consistant counts, I'll try that tonight. But I don't have a lot of hope.

[KurtG]

I have a Milwaukee that runs perfect and very stable. I use a working pressure around 22 psi though and moderate flow with the valve. 10 psi is definately too low to get a stable flow.

[20 20]

I was following the instruction posted here:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pl...stuctions.html

That says to use an output psi of 10, so that's what I did. Trial and error is having me raise that, just like you.

[KurtG]

Not sure I agree with those instructions. Up the working pressure and fine tune the flow with the needle valve, not the regulator. I'm sure you will get more stable results.

[20 20]

Current state:

PH - by controller - 7.2
PH - by 'low ph test' - 6.6
PH - by 'high ph test' - no higher than 7.4 (that's as low as the test goes)
KH - 5
GH - 125.3
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 40 (maybe 80, tough for me to read the test)

So. Couple of questions. Look at those different PH readings. Something ain't right! Could be the controller is bad, maybe I calibrated it incorrectly, maybe the PH test kit is bad or I took the tests incorrectly. I think my next move is to recalibrate the PH controller. It's a Milwaukee, I calibrated it with the 7 ph solution that came with it (I've done this type of thing before, successfully, too! ).

I know there's a relationship between PH, KH, and CO2 levels, so I've kept the controller set to about 6.6 (the KH reading last time was 4). I'll adjust that as I figure out the PH mess. Can someone tell me exactly what the GH is telling me, as I have no idea.

New pics:





The E. Tennelus that is melting (kinda). I am getting new leaves, so that's good: