New method(?) to start up an algae free tank without any water changes or work(really

[plantbrain]

I've been toying with a few ideas that are I suppose radical to most, but not really when you think about it.

This method allows you to set the tank up flawlessly in the start up phase which is arguably the hardest and toughest phase of planted tank care.

You can grow in many species of plants such as HC, or gloss or most any nay pesky foreground plant without any water other than enough to soak the sediments well for 4-8 weeks first then after it's well grown in, add water and fish. You simply cover the tank with a glass lid or plastic like a terrarium, there's plenty of water in the sediment.

By not adding the water, you can grow the plants flawlessly, no algae, no water changes every 2 to 4 days etc, no NH4, no fish uprooting things etc. The tank is also completely cycled buy the time you add the water to fill things up.

This is the Easiest method to start up a tank without dosing, water changes, any algae, completely cycled tank etc.

The first 2 months are the toughest and this avoids it all.

Just cover the tank, add light and sediment(ADA AS works great BTW and cost about the same most sediments, you can mist the plants if you use flourite black etc with a NPK and trace solution 2x a week otherwise)

You can add the taller stem plants after you fill the tank up and/or other plants that ADAPT FAST.

Pretty darn easy.

I made a nice rug of HC this way using nothing more than a 1" layer of ADA aqua soil, filled the water to about 7/8" depth, added more water about once every 1-2 weeks to keep it moist and after 4 weeks, the tank is entirely grown in.

No dosing, no water changes, no CO2 issues, no uprooting, no nothing. Easy as it gets.

Bacteria will cycle after about 3 weeks or so, about the time frame the rug grows in using the ADA AS. So the NH4 is now been converted to NO3 and has plenty of bacteria to keep it low.

Some will say they wanna add their fish right away, then can do the old way if they want to, but this method makes life much easier and a little patience can make the tank look very nice with virtually no work.

Not many trade offs here.
And the success rate ought to be near 100% without any issues with algae, growth etc.

I do not think there are any other methods that can come even remotely close to that for the general plant hobbyist.

Crypts have long been grown as well as swords, Anubias, hair grass, Gloss, Dwarf clover, Utricularia grammifolia, as matter of fact, most of the plants that Tropica carries are emergent grown.............

I'd wait to add most stem plants later as you add the water. Then a week later, add shrimps, algae eaters and another week, the main fish.

If you dose well, do the water changes etc, good tending of the CO2.......the system should start off and stay looking good from then on.

I think this method can make many folk's life far easier and less labor and far better results than the "water in the tank methods" to start a new tank up.

I've grown Crypts for many many years this way, but given the issues, taking the next step with the start phase of the tanks that submersed seems pretty reasonable.

Don't you think so?
Many want a nice rug of various foreground plants and this is dang easy way to get a massive rug pre rooted.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[jaidexl]

[plantbrain]

Originally Posted by jaidexl

Hahahaha
hehehe

Regards,
Tom Barr

[spypet]

this is a very compelling approach that I will employ on my next (3rd) tank.
it will be 2'x2'x4' so starting this way will save me from getting arm cramps.
for now, I'm still learning about growing different plants and water chemistry.

[Wasserpest]

I haven't grown HC, but I wonder if there is any issue with it starting out in its emersed form, and then going through some sort of conversion.

I might try this with Marsilea one day...

[plantbrain]

I have not seen any transition issues to date.

Think about this: is a plant stressed, likely to melt etc if you uproot and transplant? Or if you merely submersed the plant?

Are the emergent grow potted plants quick to die?
No, they are fairly tough.

If you have a nice root establishment prior to submersion, this greatly enhances the ability of the plant to adapt quickly. You also have good bacterial cycling in the sediment etc.

Roots are well grown in. Leaves adapt and grow in well after that.

Given an option(which we do in fact have here, unless we place such barriers in our own way), which do you think would work better?

Roots well established, thick lush growth(very cheap to get a few small bits of HC, U grammifolia, Gloss etc and have it grow over a large area quickly and be pre rooted), no algae at all, easy as pie, well adapted, excellent bacterial colonization, no water changes or other issues, no uprooting etc..................
.... or rip the plants out of the clumps and mash those roots back into the gravel and submersed them as well?

I'll take the first option.

HC adapted very well, so did Gloss and U grammifolia.
Crypts, Swords, Sags, and most other amphibious plants=> most of the aquatic we kept are............should do well.

When you flood the tank, then they put out new leaves, but the old leaves will remain.

If you take a emergent plant and repot it, and submerse it, the older leaves tend to die.

Not so if you merely flood.

No matter how this method is sliced, it's still far easier to make a nice rug of plants prior to filling and it's so easy that it might be unsettling initially.

A simple extreme labor saving solution to the high techy woes.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[zergling]

Tom, while I like your idea and seriously considering to do this with the new tank I'm getting this saturday, one thing comes to mind though..

What if your scape includes strong sloping?

It's easy to get the lower parts wet with water, but what about the peaks? To get the higher slopes wet with water, you'll flood down the lower parts, which may or may not experience algae growth....

[RoseHawke]

Okay, I think you started this thread as a corollary to the other thread about how to make hills as I noticed your mention of this method there and was immediately intrigued. I do have a question about keeping the substrate uniformly moist in the case of 'scaping of that sort. Is it uniformly wicked up in the "high" areas of such a 'scape? Does many levels present a problem? Or would this method be better suited to a flattish or at best minimally sculpted 'scape?

edit: I see this occurred to Zergling and myself at approximately the same time!

[Ryzilla]

Originally Posted by zergling

Tom, while I like your idea and seriously considering to do this with the new tank I'm getting this saturday, one thing comes to mind though..

What if your scape includes strong sloping?

It's easy to get the lower parts wet with water, but what about the peaks? To get the higher slopes wet with water, you'll flood down the lower parts, which may or may not experience algae growth....

This was my exact thoughts. You might have to mist the aquarium daily maybe more then daily to keep the roots and leaves moist. I see how this could work with a level surface, as I have done this with HC in my 2.5g. If the degree of the slope is subtle then some foreground plants would be eigth to half submerges like dwarf hairgrass. Even HC has some height to it so the degree of the slope would have to be more subtle then that of hairgrass.

All in all this makes sense. At the point were you add water the plants are very efficient and effective at taking up nutrients and growing. They could outcompete the algae initially making it more stable from the point of fish introduction. This also eliminates the need to pack your tank with fast growing stems like Green Hygo that you will never use in a scape. I think I am going to experiment with this when I rescape my tank in the near future.

[fishscale]

I guess the key is to keep the substrate moist, not wet. I think Ryzilla is right.

[mistergreen]

dang, I just started a 10G tank yesterday.

don't forget to keep the air in your tank really humid (a good cover)... your plants might dry up pretty quickly.
I was trimming my anubias yesterday and the trimmed leaves dried up in matter of hours. I guess there are issues the other way too where you take submerged plants and try to grow them emersed.

[zergling]

I searched around the sfbaaps forum and found Bill Harada's (bharada) dry HC tank

Originally Posted by Bill Harada

Based from the thread, it's a combination of several things
- Bill waters the hill a bit more
- aqua soil is very porous
- capillary action from the HC roots. Turns out the emerged HC roots deeper in the substrate.

Hills? No problem!

[Harry Muscle]

This is probably a simple question to answer for people in the know ... but would Vals work with this setup or are they considered true aquatic plants that probably won't do well ... also wouldn't they just flop over. In fact, wouldn't most tall grass like plants just flop over without the water? What about swords and such, do they have the rigitity to stand on their own?

Thanks,
Harry

[JenThePlantGeek]

Hey Harry - Vallisneria is a true aquatic and doesn't have an emersed form. It'd just flop over and crisp up. If you wanted a grassy look though, there are several other species that'd work. Sagittaria, Lilaeopsis, Haigrass, Echinodorus tenellus, those will all grow emersed. Swords also have a nice emersed form, they could stand on their own.

[cookingnerd607]

Harry muscle:

Originally Posted by plantbrain

HC adapted very well, so did Gloss and U grammifolia.
Crypts, Swords, Sags, and most other amphibious plants=> most of the aquatic we kept are............should do wel

Tom:
do you have a difinitive list of plants that would be capable of this? I read your post a number of weeks ago about this topic and find it very intertesting and would love to observe the changes of multiple plants. The ones that you have listed that interest me are sags, hc, and anubias. Would stargrass work?