New method(?) to start up an algae free tank without any water changes or work(really

[if_fishes_were_wishes]

I have an HC mat tied to a rock sitting in a tupperware on my windowsill. The thing pearls like there's no tomorrow with water barely covering the top of the rock. Now I'm gonna plant it in some Eco-complete and lower the water. Can't wait to try it

[original kuhli]

I'll be trying this on the startup of my new tank. Great thinking. I've always wet the substrate as soon as possible to start the bacterial process (or kept it wet). Giving the plants a head start is a great idea too!

[jaidexl]

I think after a bit more time learning proper placement of different species, and checking off the ones that actually have an emmersed form, I'm going to give this a shot.

[aquanut415]

this method works great! more and more SFBAAPS folks have been fooling with this idea for a while now with great success. great way to start a HC foreground, or Utricularia graminifolia indeed.

[gmccreedy]

Not for nothing, but this is not something new. Its a great idea and certainly something that is great to bring forward. Its really just a passive hydroponics setup.

But props for getting this out there for informational purposes Tom. Great for plant conditioning and battling the intial algae problems.

[2wheelsx2]

I think I'll be giving this a try with my next low-mid tech 10 gallon. Great idea.

[fishscale]

Tom, I know I've asked this before, but has this been done with a substrate other than aquasoil? I'm thinking about using SMS, but if it won't work, I'll get some AS too. Also, is dwarf hairgrass a true aquatic plant, or will it work emmersed as well?

[original kuhli]

The point of doing it this way is the following so much as I can gather:

1) Start the biological activity in the substrate. Any substrate will provide a multiplication site for beneficial bacteria. Clay based substrates will be superior to plain old rock substrates. However, the technique is beneficial regardless of substrate choice. The only possibility is that the apparent nutritional level of Aquasoil may benefit the plants in early growth. Either way it looks like a good strategy.

2) It builds a biomass thats well rooted and developed to effectively stabilize the tank when filled with water. Again, useful regardless of substrate.

Don't get caught Jonesing(http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jonesing) on the substrate choice or efficacy. Don't forget, plain old gravel works just fine.

[James From Cali]

I am surely going to try this with my own aquarium now. I wanted to get nice looking crypts that filled in nicely and have better growth. May need to try this to see if it works better than what I been doing.

[plantbrain]

The point here is to reduce the effort(no water changes, nor labor of any sort really) as well as be algae free(100% everytime).

Other sediments can work fine, if they lack NH4, NO3, PO4 etc, then you will want to add them(ex, SMS).

Soil etc works fine with sand etc as well for those unwilling/wanting a cheaper solution than to use ADA AS.

I had a tank with HC in the lab with delta sediment doing fine.
I took it out and added it to a ADA As tank 1ft sq and it grew in fast.

Since it's not new, why have not more folks described it and come forth with the idea then?

I mean, if you think about it, why wouldn't you do things this way?

Hummm...........

Growing plants emergent for horticulture is hardly new, but why the insistence on growing and starting a new tank submersed? with all the issues that surround starting a new planted tank?

Why hasn't ADA suggested it as well?
Or someone else? It's a good idea and one that would sell itself.

Does not make sense to me personally.
It's sort of obvious, but many things are like that in life.

ADA AS is nice as it has some NH4 already in it, it's relatively cheap, grows most every plant easily etc. I'd suggest using it. 20 gallon tank will run about 30-35$.

That and cheap 2x20w light works fine also, but why suggest that sand is such a great deal when folks spend 100-200$ for a light on such a tank when a 15$ light will do fine?

I mean, we can be cheap about a great many things and put our $ elsewhere, not just sand/sediments etc. Why use reflectors at all in the lights? Use the left over mylar foil potato chip bags if you wanna be cheap

Use sunlight like I do for most of the lab stuff and the HC sitting on my porch

This method works great for that also, I just sit the tanks outside(unless it gets much below 60F) and add ADA soil, weeds and wait.

No light, no electric, no dosing, no water changes, etc.
Such trade offs have little bad points and many good ones for both the techy and the DIY cheapster.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[plantbrain]

Originally Posted by zergling

I searched around the sfbaaps forum and found Bill Harada's (bharada) dry HC tank



Based from the thread, it's a combination of several things
- Bill waters the hill a bit more
- aqua soil is very porous
- capillary action from the HC roots. Turns out the emerged HC roots deeper in the substrate.

Hills? No problem!

Yes, I have a "dry" tank like this sitting here.
However, fill the sucker up.
Add fish, filter and you have the tank looking nice.

I'm not trying to promote terrariums here, I'm trying to suggest a nice method to start a tank up and have it hit the ground running.

Dry tanks, emergent grown plants etc are nothing "new", using that technique to start up a submersed tank is however "new" ....it seems.

I've yet to find any references suggesting the above.
Wasabi, dry tanks, emergent growth etc.

Seems like a logical extension to me.


Regards,
Tom Barr

[gmccreedy]

Tom, I hope you didn't take what I said wrong. I was actually complimenting you on utilizing an existing technique that is simple and effective! It was great that you pointed it out and I am all over it. trying it out as we speak in a 10 gallon...lol!

One thing I did want to ask though, for soils that are inert, how about the addition of root tabs to give the intital nutrients that AS has. Or possibly saturating the little water in the tank with NPK?

[RoseHawke]

Tom, I think the reason more people don't do this is because most people come at planted tanks from a fishkeeping background and not the other way around. They're just used to keeping a tank full of water for the inhabitants. They're used to thinking of it as an aquarium, a tank full of water. People coming at it from a vivarium/terrarium background would probably come from the other direction as it seems more "normal" to them to start out mostly dry and then fill the sucker up with water. I want to do this, but I'll have to find somewhere to move the fish to first. So far I have resisted "MTS" , well, mostly anyway. I've managed to keep it to a 55 and a 10, but if I do this all the fishies will have to live somewhere else for a while.

[Daniel*Swords]

Great suggestion, Tom!

However, if you have blue-green algae (ok, it's a cyanobacteria) in the house, it's easy to get the new tank contaminated. I've BGA growing here and there in my emergent swordplant pots. Any suggestions how to get rid of it?

Not all sags seem to do so well emersed: the dwarf sag (often sold as S. teres, though seemingly S. demersa) hasn't grown well emersed for me.

[plantbrain]

Originally Posted by gmccreedy

Tom, I hope you didn't take what I said wrong. I was actually complimenting you on utilizing an existing technique that is simple and effective! It was great that you pointed it out and I am all over it. trying it out as we speak in a 10 gallon...lol!

One thing I did want to ask though, for soils that are inert, how about the addition of root tabs to give the intital nutrients that AS has. Or possibly saturating the little water in the tank with NPK?

Yep, adding a spray of hydroponic type solution, eg hoaglands etc, or your own EI liquid based stuff etc would work fine.

The other option is to simply add a nice rich 10X concentrated solution to the water used to soak the sediment.

I have not tried that, however there is no good reason it would not work well.
I think a lot of folks will try the method now.

I think it has broad application for both low techy folks and soil based even non CO2 types, as well as the obvious high techy CO2 folks as well.

By doing this with a non CO2 approach, or Excel, the tank with soil will be pre mineralized already..............the NH4 will be well cycled.........so far far fewer issues and a nice foreground on a non CO2 tank, often a rare sight.

Same for a CO2 enriched tank use soil as a sediment.
There are many types of sediments possible here.

Regards,
Tom Barr