A new Black Substrate by Aquariumplants.com

[bharada]

Well, my point in this exercise was to cut out all the speculation on this 'new' product.

But Hoppy is right. Now we know that if you have no way of getting Soilmaster Select or Turface through local channels you have the option of getting it from aquariumplants.com.

When you think about it, it's no different than what Greg Watson does selling dry ferts.

[Betowess]

Originally Posted by bharada

To close, I should add that the filled bucket weighed in at ~35#, so my $57(including shipping) bought me approximately 33# of substrate ($1.73/#).

Contrast this to a locally purchased, 50# bag of Turface Pro League at $20 (including tax, or 40¢/#) and you can see that there are better deals to be had out in the marketplace.

A lesson learned for the price of a family night out at Applebees.

And two bags of flourite (30 lbs) shipped would be $40.00. A substantial part of that cost is freight. I guess it figures. Substrates are heavy so pickup locally if at all possible. Still, I'm glad they are offering it.

And thanks for doing the deed, Bill!

[yoink]

I'm sure if lesco/oildri where selling aquarium substrate they would charge quite a bit more than what they do for soil conditioner too.

[glass-gardens.com]

Originally Posted by bharada

Alright then. I opened my front door this afternoon to find a bright red, 5 gal bucket from aquariumplants.com.

Here are the pics of it compared to Turface Pro League...

Image: http://bharada.com/misc/substrate_comp1.jpg

Image: http://bharada.com/misc/substrate_comp2.jpg

The only difference I can see right off is that the Aquariumplants.com substrate seems to have less small grains (~1mm) than the Turface. But aside from that they appear to be identical. So maybe it's Soilmaster Select instead?

Seeing this, I'm not going to bother doing any extensive testing since there's abundant information already posted on using Turface/Soilmaster as a substrate.

I hereby relinquish my "David Horowitz" credentials.

Great work !!! Good info.

Originally Posted by bharada

Well, my point in this exercise was to cut out all the speculation on this 'new' product.

But Hoppy is right. Now we know that if you have no way of getting Soilmaster Select or Turface through local channels you have the option of getting it from aquariumplants.com.

When you think about it, it's no different than what Greg Watson does selling dry ferts.

Actually it is, Watson is selling bulk ferts, but he isn't making the claim that their manufactured by or for him, whereas AP is claiming their's is exclusive, insinuating that you can't get it anywhere else.

Whether they mean you can't get the stuff anywhere else, or you can't get it with their label pasted on a red bucket is something they have to clarify.

I'm still waiting to see some kind of lab analysis, but I have a feeling we'll never see it, and if we do, it will be by some anonymous company which they can't reveal because of "propreitary information.

[bharada]

Originally Posted by glass-gardens.com

Actually it is, Watson is selling bulk ferts, but he isn't making the claim that their manufactured by or for him, whereas AP is claiming their's is exclusive, insinuating that you can't get it anywhere else.

That's just marketing.

My point is that Greg takes bulk product, repackages it and sell it under his own label as aquarium fertilizer.

[glass-gardens.com]

But he's also very up front about what he's doing.

There's marketing and then there's "creative" marketing. One is honest and straight forward, the other goes back to the days of snake oil in my opinion.

[Rod Hay]

Well, certainly, I never have enough pails or buckets handy when I do aquascaping stuff. A new, shiny red bucket is good to have around!

I agree with the several Greg Watson comparisons.

There are definately occasions when I'm willing and happy to pay for convenience, and glad to have someone else do the leg-work for me. If you're not near a large city sometimes this product is very hard to locate. In other instances, I can see where someone may not need 50# of Soilmaster and not want to store a lot of left over product.

That said, however, I appreciate truthfulness! Let me elect to pay for the service and convenience. I don't want to feel like I've been dupped later!!!

[A Hill]

Originally Posted by spypet

Fish, keep us updated on this. while I would not call 3mm grains "sand", such a black item would be a perfect base lower layer for a tank using Eco Complete on top, which is something I'm probably going to do on my next BIG tank

Yes I believe I saw it on Aquatic Plant Central In the El Natural section because people used that to cover thier mud ... Will check, But lets not go off topic here.

- Andrew

Here is what I was refering to

El Natural With A Twist (long 56k!) - Aquatic Plant Central- aquascaping...a living art

the sand is later in the first post

[Blacksunshine]

Originally Posted by bharada

It's called 'taking one for the team'.

As for repackaging products, that's what OEMing is all about. Think about all the PC components that are sold under different brand names, but are all manufactured by one company.

I'm beginning to think that what makes this substrate special is it being aged in the magic red bucket.

Altho that statement is true to some extent. the OEMs that repackage and sell under their label have OEM aggreements with the MFG's that allow them to do so. without some sort of aggrement from the original source it is patent infringment. Big no no.
That is if they are not getting it from the originating source that also supplies the makers of soilmaster. If thats the case and Soilmaster is not an exclusive product made/developed by that company then it is just an earth mineral that is free for anyone to source and resell.

[bharada]

So I guess we really can't get away from speculation in this thread, can we? None of us know what business arrangements have been made by aquriumplants.com to sell this substrate so why bring it up at all?

[Momotaro]

So I guess we really can't get away from speculation in this thread, can we? None of us know what business arrangements have been made by aquriumplants.com to sell this substrate so why bring it up at all?

You are absolutely right there, Bill. Absolutely right.


Mike

[A Hill]

Originally Posted by Momotaro

You are absolutely right there, Bill. Absolutely right.


Mike

I agree also! So unless someone asks the owners, I think the speculations should end?

- Andrew

[Fishgovno]

Good idea on the stop assuming.
aquariumplants.com's substrate is not SMS it is minned for them and there own line of product, not someone elses re packaged.
The reason substrate tablets is suggested is due to the extra nutrients given by substrate tablets quickly- if you have tried them you would understand what a difference they make very fast.
There will be more information available ASAP.
I have but one coment about some of the forum members on this site it is very unfair to pee on the forum sponsers if such behavior goes on it is a wounder that there are any sponsers left,I know if I was contributing to this site I sure as hell would not be for very long if such behaviour continues.I noticed it states that not to put negative feed back on the sponsers area -so negative feed back some where else is ok?
There seems to be some sort of trend going on with forum sponsers drobing there sponsership around north america-I wounder why?
Mom always said it best if you have nothing nice to say Shut your mouth.
Everyone is entitled to there opinion and that's all it is a opinion.(this is mine)

[glass-gardens.com]

Since you appear to be a representative of the company in question, how about instead of complaining about the speculation here, you take the time to answer the questions people are asking and ending the speculation.

You say it's mined for you? Where, what company?

Where's the independent analysis? What lab performed it?

It's very unreasonable for you to expect there not be any speculation when you put something like this out there and then just keep saying more info is coming without ever posting it.

You're a business, you should be willing to back up your claims with evidence supporting them, if you aren't, then you shouldn't complain about speculation.

If we can't have an honest discussion on this forum, then why have the forum.

No one is attacking you or your company, we're discussing one of your products and you could easily add to that discussion by providing us with information.

I see no need to be complaining about people discussing something, you have no right to demand we simply be cheerleaders for you.

[Fishgovno]

Firstly not my company.
I do know there will be information available soon.I don't have it yet.
I was just stating that there is a lot of complaining and speculating.There are a lot of forums I belong to and the ones in Canada have a rule that does not allow forum members to make shots at sponsers or non sponsers or even for that matter at other members...
What I have read kinda buggs the crap out of me that the mod team allows such behavior and then inturn the forum expects some donations or help from sponsers why would they do that(I can say that-seeing I am not a sponser or a store owner)I just can't sit back and watch any store/sponser get ripped apart I have had my share of bad deals or bad stores but that is between me and them.
I can go and on about this but there is no point I am done,just putting in my 2 cents.I am sure aquariumplants.com will issue what information they have when they have it.