A new Black Substrate by Aquariumplants.com

**jhoetzl** · 11-30-2006, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bharada

Whatever happened to using a ruler as a size reference in pictures?

Metric or IP ?

And yes, in grain size, it certainly does resemble SMS Pro, even has some non-black bits in it...

**DiabloCanine** · 11-30-2006, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhoetzl

Metric or IP ?

And yes, in grain size, it certainly does resemble SMS Pro, even has some non-black bits in it...

Soilmaster select is less than a nickel a pound though. I wonder how many 5 gallon buckets you could get out of 250 pounds?......DC

**DiabloCanine** · 11-30-2006, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoink

Bill, have you ever used soilmaster select? I am interested in the similarities between the two. They look similar anyway.

Hey, I just noticed, that stuff looks familiar.....DC

glass-gardens.com · 11-30-2006, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burks

Real world experience trumps producer claims any day.

I trust independent lab analysis over experience simply because user experience can be very subjective and I don't see any real world experience that would withstand scientific scrutiny as to the conclusions.

I used to drive a Chevy, it was a POS, then I bought my Ford, it's great, therefore Ford is better than Chevy, right?

triple red · 12-01-2006, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoink

Ok, here it is with 5 nickels, 6 quarters, a 5 pence piece, and a happy face of dimes. I tried unsuccesfully to locate a chucky cheese token, I'm sorry.

OH MY GOD

roflol

**bharada** · 12-06-2006, 10:19 PM

Alright then. I opened my front door this afternoon to find a bright red, 5 gal bucket from aquariumplants.com.

Here are the pics of it compared to Turface Pro League...

The only difference I can see right off is that the Aquariumplants.com substrate seems to have less small grains (~1mm) than the Turface. But aside from that they appear to be identical. So maybe it's Soilmaster Select instead?

Seeing this, I'm not going to bother doing any extensive testing since there's abundant information already posted on using Turface/Soilmaster as a substrate.

I hereby relinquish my "David Horowitz" credentials.

**bharada** · 12-06-2006, 10:35 PM

To close, I should add that the filled bucket weighed in at ~35#, so my $57(including shipping) bought me approximately 33# of substrate ($1.73/#).

Contrast this to a locally purchased, 50# bag of Turface Pro League at $20 (including tax, or 40¢/#) and you can see that there are better deals to be had out in the marketplace.

A lesson learned for the price of a family night out at Applebees.

**Ryzilla** · 12-06-2006, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bharada

To close, I should add that the filled bucket weighed in at ~35#, so my $57(including shipping) bought me approximately 33# of substrate ($1.73/#).

Contrast this to a locally purchased, 50# bag of Turface Pro League at $20 (including tax, or 40¢/#) and you can see that there are better deals to be had out in the marketplace.

A lesson learned for the price of a family night out at Applebees.

love the analasys here. This is why TPT get a thumbs up. I wouldnt be suprised if they are sifting the turface pro league and once that have sifted enoughth they will release there own sand substrate product.

Steven_Chong · 12-07-2006, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glass-gardens.com

I trust independent lab analysis over experience simply because user experience can be very subjective and I don't see any real world experience that would withstand scientific scrutiny as to the conclusions.

I used to drive a Chevy, it was a POS, then I bought my Ford, it's great, therefore Ford is better than Chevy, right?

Glass is spot on here. You can't "prove" results with 3 or 4 tanks. I doubt that any 1 bag of flourite and any 1 bag of this stuff could be justifiably considered a "random sample" nor do I think it is a very good sample size. When it comes down to it, 1 bag/bucket of the stuff that's all in the same aquarium, and you only set up 1 aquarium of each, won't give you enough data to get very stable results.

For a TRUE experiment, you'd have to really up the sample size!

Since very few of us are in the position to set up 20-30 tanks for each and then perfectly control all variables to give a good analysis, I'm with glass on leaving "proving" data to the labs. Or Tom Barr. XD

spypet · 12-07-2006, 01:32 AM

bharada ; thanks for taking the time to post that picture. it's what makes these hobby forums such a wonderful resource.

**A Hill** · 12-07-2006, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryzilla

love the analasys here. This is why TPT get a thumbs up. I wouldnt be suprised if they are sifting the turface pro league and once that have sifted enoughth they will release there own sand substrate product.

Hehe I thought of the same thing, well I guess we know what it is then!

Now the price is $35 for it shipped... which isnt too too bad

Oh and if you want cheap black sand I read HomeDepot has 3mm black quartz sand, I haven't gone to see if that is true yet though.

- Andrew

**bigstick120** · 12-07-2006, 02:01 AM

Thanks for the analysis Bill and being a bit of a guinea pig.
Is it legal to repackage a product and call it your own? Seems like there are some patent laws against that to me

**bharada** · 12-07-2006, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigstick120

Thanks for the analysis Bill and being a bit of a guinea pig.
Is it legal to repackage a product and call it your own? Seems like there are some patent laws against that to me

It's called 'taking one for the team'.

As for repackaging products, that's what OEMing is all about. Think about all the PC components that are sold under different brand names, but are all manufactured by one company.

I'm beginning to think that what makes this substrate special is it being aged in the magic red bucket.

Hoppy · 12-07-2006, 04:26 AM

Let me speak up for Aquariumplants.com: Many people have had trouble finding SM in their area, especially the charcoal color. So, they have not been able to use it. Aquariumplants.com is repackaging what is probably SM, and making it available at a very low price for the benefit of those people. Aquariumplants.com is certainly not a manufacturer of substrates, so it had to follow that they found something that was suitable for use as a substrate, but was cheap for them to buy, and apparently SM is what it was. So, I say, thanks to them for doing this favor for us.

spypet · 12-07-2006, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Newb

cheap black sand I read HomeDepot has 3mm black quartz sand.

Fish, keep us updated on this. while I would not call 3mm grains "sand", such a black item would be a perfect base lower layer for a tank using Eco Complete on top, which is something I'm probably going to do on my next BIG tank

12-06-2006, 10:19 PM	#51 (permalink)
bharada Planted Tank Guru (View User Tanks) PTrader: (9) Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Fremont, CA Posts: 2,581	Alright then. I opened my front door this afternoon to find a bright red, 5 gal bucket from aquariumplants.com. Here are the pics of it compared to Turface Pro League... The only difference I can see right off is that the Aquariumplants.com substrate seems to have less small grains (~1mm) than the Turface. But aside from that they appear to be identical. So maybe it's Soilmaster Select instead? Seeing this, I'm not going to bother doing any extensive testing since there's abundant information already posted on using Turface/Soilmaster as a substrate. I hereby relinquish my "David Horowitz" credentials. __________________ —Bill sfbaaps \| My site

12-06-2006, 10:35 PM	#52 (permalink)
bharada Planted Tank Guru (View User Tanks) PTrader: (9) Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Fremont, CA Posts: 2,581	To close, I should add that the filled bucket weighed in at ~35#, so my $57(including shipping) bought me approximately 33# of substrate ($1.73/#). Contrast this to a locally purchased, 50# bag of Turface Pro League at $20 (including tax, or 40¢/#) and you can see that there are better deals to be had out in the marketplace. A lesson learned for the price of a family night out at Applebees. __________________ —Bill sfbaaps \| My site

12-07-2006, 01:32 AM	#55 (permalink)
spypet Banned (View User Tanks) PTrader: (56) Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Forest Hills, NY Posts: 3,298	bharada ; thanks for taking the time to post that picture. it's what makes these hobby forums such a wonderful resource. __________________ {Clear Mesh Net Sale} {my 29gal planted tank} {my 10gal crayfish tank} {DIY moss rope ladders} {my 100% Co2 Diffuser} {DIY Lava Rock Background} {30g full of Nano stuff}

12-07-2006, 02:01 AM	#57 (permalink)
bigstick120 Algae Eater (View User Tanks) PTrader: (137) Join Date: May 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 2,417	Thanks for the analysis Bill and being a bit of a guinea pig. Is it legal to repackage a product and call it your own? Seems like there are some patent laws against that to me __________________ My Photography site See the evolution of my 55 gallon My 29 Gallon

12-07-2006, 04:26 AM	#59 (permalink)
Hoppy Planted Tank Guru (View User Tanks) PTrader: (19) Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,486	Let me speak up for Aquariumplants.com: Many people have had trouble finding SM in their area, especially the charcoal color. So, they have not been able to use it. Aquariumplants.com is repackaging what is probably SM, and making it available at a very low price for the benefit of those people. Aquariumplants.com is certainly not a manufacturer of substrates, so it had to follow that they found something that was suitable for use as a substrate, but was cheap for them to buy, and apparently SM is what it was. So, I say, thanks to them for doing this favor for us. __________________ Hoppy

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