Neon Tetras dropping like flies?

shane3fan · 11-04-2009, 05:33 PM

Hi, new member here. I hate to start off my membership here with asking questions-but thats all Ive got right now. As I learn more about the hobby I will return my knowledge to the forums as I have always done in my other hobbies ( racing and photoshop )

A little background about my tank (s) ;

29 gallon planted pretty heavily. No CO2, weekly liquid Flourish ferts. Gravel substrate. Easy to grow plants ( swords, crypts, annacharis etc. ) T8 6700k Life Glo bulb in a standard hood. Until Sunday the tank was filtered with a Penguin Biowheel 150 HOB with no carbon, Sunday I installed a Fluval 205 canister filter-still no carbon, just the foam, bio material and polishing pad--I put a piece of foam from the old filter into the new one. Tank has been setup for at least a couple of months now with a Rainbow Shark, 8 Neon Tetras, 5 Julii Corydoras and 1 Mystery Snail with no health issues at all.

Starting Monday morning Ive had Neons dying and Im down to 4 remaining. No real evidence as to why they died. One by one they have become seperated from the school and then floated to the surface dead--I havent seen one actually die yet. I have seen them display a swim bladder issue after eating though--last night I gave them a pea and no other food. They swim fine until after they eat, then some of them swim with their bodies vertical with their heads downward and some weird twitchy swim motion.

I know Neons are a sensitive breed and that it should be of no suprise to me that they are dying--but it still concerns me. They appear to be gasping for air as they swim around with their mouths constantly opening and closing-so, I reinstalled the Penguing HOB last night to try to aerate the water a little--I didnt think that would be an issue with all of the plants in that tank though.

Anything you can think of that I am missing?

If they continue to die do you have any suggestions of a replacement breed for my tank?

pH 7.6
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates <10
temp 78*

**lauraleellbp** · 11-04-2009, 05:42 PM

Welcome to TPT!

So sorry to hear about your neons.

Your water params look good, so apparently it's not anything that you can commonly test for.

Where did your new filter come from? Was it new or used? Did you rinse it out carefully before installing it?

Do you have any carbon or Purigen you could add to the filters now, to see if there is some sort of toxin in the water that they could pull out?

What do you normally feed the tetras?

None of the other fish are showing any signs at all of problems?

The possibilities that come to my mind based on the info so far is that some water contaminant was introduced with the new filter or new media, that the neons could have some sort of parasite (though based on how quickly they're going down this is not the most likely, IMO), or some sort of disease has caught up with them... perhaps even introduced by the new filter if you obtained it used.

shane3fan · 11-04-2009, 06:08 PM

New filter--I would be scared to put a used one on. I did rinse the filter out-but maybe not good enough?

I normally feed them flake food-an assortment of different ones.

And none of the others appear to be sick--not in this tank anyway--Ive got a sick Paradise Fish--but thats another story all together.

shane3fan · 11-04-2009, 07:46 PM

Crap--just got back from lunch and I checked the fish--one of my Neons now has a white spot on his tail fin--looks like Ich-but it is only one spot.

Recommended method to combat Ich in a tank with Corys and Snails? I bumped the heat up a little before I left home. Im sure it will take a little while to warm 29 gallons of water but I remember reading that higher temps help get rid of Ich.

**lauraleellbp** · 11-04-2009, 10:27 PM

Ich would be a good culprit, and tetras are typically the first to go.

Check out the other ich thread going in here right now for a good discussion of treatment options. Also read through the skeptical aquarist article that's linked in that thread, IMO it's a good one.

I wouldn't raise temps more than a degree or two per day. Fast temperature changes can really take their toll on fish health, as well.

lhscouchmonster · 11-05-2009, 02:46 AM

if the tetras are gasping and no other fish are, it is probably a disease effecting the neons first. The fish are probabaly gasping because they are stressed. tetras are sensitive so they could be showing signs before other fish. it could also be neon tetra disease. i dont know if this is an omen but if you search google for - neon tetra disease plantedtank.net -, this thread is the 3rd result lol.

i don't see why the new filter would be hurting the neons

your ph looks a little high for tetras but should not cause deaths IME (had them in 8.2 ph once and they were fine) it could be stressing them out and weakening them though

shane3fan · 11-05-2009, 01:32 PM

Well, weve made it two full days without any more deaths in this tank. Sadly, my paradise fish died of some sort of fungal issue that I could never get rid of. He was in a seperate tank though.

I still only see ONE spot on my neon tetras. It looks like Ich--but only ONE spot?

fish h20 · 11-06-2009, 01:54 PM

I would say Neon tetra disease. I had it in my tank a long time ago. I have seen the white spot. Get rid of that fish. It is only a matter of time. I would say you will lose them all though. Some of the stuff I saw was: Hard time swimming down after eating, loss of color, heavier breathing, more and more effort to swim the same distance. I think your fish may have already had it and with the filter change there may have been a small cycle causing stress and weakening them. I lost all my Neons over a year span to this. Last I knew there was no teatment or cure. If you lose them all I wouldn't get anymore because it will still be in the tank. Cardnal Tetras do not get this disease. You could replace them with those. Good luck! I hope I am wrong!

shane3fan · 11-06-2009, 06:31 PM

I have only had one die since I put the HOB filter back on-not sure that made any difference though. They all seem to be doing ok with the swim bladder issue since I cut back on feeding.

Thanks for the suggestions--I guess I will just keep an eye on them.

**Riiz** · 11-06-2009, 06:42 PM

Also, how fast did you acclimate them to your tank conditions?

shane3fan · 11-06-2009, 06:58 PM

They had been in the tank for a couple of months. I wouldnt think acclimation would have anything to do with the deaths at this point--could be wrong though.

shane3fan · 11-16-2009, 01:24 PM

Well, after a couple of death free weeks I had two Neons die last night/this morning. Really makes me sad to see this happen to this pretty little fish. Im down to 3 remaining. Im not sure I will put anymore Neon Tetras in a fish tank in the future. Ive only had bad luck with them.

I checked the water last night and the results were as I expected ;

Ammonia 0
NitrItes 0
pH 7.6
NitrAtes <5
temp 84* ( still elevated trying to eliminate the Ich--one Neon still has a spot of Ich on it. )

I performed a 40% water change after testing--just to be safe-plus it was due for the weekly change.

The two fish that died were struggling more than the others to swim--they ate when I fed them though. They eventually sank to the bottom and were kindof standing on their tails vertically in the water--sad to see.

Corydoras and Rainbow Shark still seem to be healthy. As a matter of fact I caught some Corys in the 'T' formation shortly after my moon lights came on--naughty little catfish-lol.

Im wondering if the stress of my Rainbow Shark chasing the Neons is ultimately the problem. He makes them scatter from time to time by charging into their ever shrinking school. I will start a new thread about that and ask for suggestions.

Thanks.

11-04-2009, 05:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
shane3fan Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Athens Ga. Posts: 24	Neon Tetras dropping like flies? Hi, new member here. I hate to start off my membership here with asking questions-but thats all Ive got right now. As I learn more about the hobby I will return my knowledge to the forums as I have always done in my other hobbies ( racing and photoshop ) A little background about my tank (s) ; 29 gallon planted pretty heavily. No CO2, weekly liquid Flourish ferts. Gravel substrate. Easy to grow plants ( swords, crypts, annacharis etc. ) T8 6700k Life Glo bulb in a standard hood. Until Sunday the tank was filtered with a Penguin Biowheel 150 HOB with no carbon, Sunday I installed a Fluval 205 canister filter-still no carbon, just the foam, bio material and polishing pad--I put a piece of foam from the old filter into the new one. Tank has been setup for at least a couple of months now with a Rainbow Shark, 8 Neon Tetras, 5 Julii Corydoras and 1 Mystery Snail with no health issues at all. Starting Monday morning Ive had Neons dying and Im down to 4 remaining. No real evidence as to why they died. One by one they have become seperated from the school and then floated to the surface dead--I havent seen one actually die yet. I have seen them display a swim bladder issue after eating though--last night I gave them a pea and no other food. They swim fine until after they eat, then some of them swim with their bodies vertical with their heads downward and some weird twitchy swim motion. I know Neons are a sensitive breed and that it should be of no suprise to me that they are dying--but it still concerns me. They appear to be gasping for air as they swim around with their mouths constantly opening and closing-so, I reinstalled the Penguing HOB last night to try to aerate the water a little--I didnt think that would be an issue with all of the plants in that tank though. Anything you can think of that I am missing? If they continue to die do you have any suggestions of a replacement breed for my tank? pH 7.6 Ammonia 0 Nitrites 0 Nitrates <10 temp 78*

11-04-2009, 05:42 PM	#2 (permalink)
lauraleellbp Fresh Fish Freak (View User Tanks) PTrader: (53/100%) Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 11,728	Welcome to TPT! So sorry to hear about your neons. Your water params look good, so apparently it's not anything that you can commonly test for. Where did your new filter come from? Was it new or used? Did you rinse it out carefully before installing it? Do you have any carbon or Purigen you could add to the filters now, to see if there is some sort of toxin in the water that they could pull out? What do you normally feed the tetras? None of the other fish are showing any signs at all of problems? The possibilities that come to my mind based on the info so far is that some water contaminant was introduced with the new filter or new media, that the neons could have some sort of parasite (though based on how quickly they're going down this is not the most likely, IMO), or some sort of disease has caught up with them... perhaps even introduced by the new filter if you obtained it used. __________________ Laura Lee's tank Journals: At Work-10 gal Shrimpy Crypt Jungle, 29 gal Planted Tetra Tank (in progress), At Home- 46 gal Low Tech Planted (in progress), 90 gal New World Community August 2009 Fishing trip in the Amazon; my Journal of 10 days in Bolivia along the Rio San Martin (in progress)

11-04-2009, 10:27 PM	#5 (permalink)
lauraleellbp Fresh Fish Freak (View User Tanks) PTrader: (53/100%) Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 11,728	Ich would be a good culprit, and tetras are typically the first to go. Check out the other ich thread going in here right now for a good discussion of treatment options. Also read through the skeptical aquarist article that's linked in that thread, IMO it's a good one. I wouldn't raise temps more than a degree or two per day. Fast temperature changes can really take their toll on fish health, as well. __________________ Laura Lee's tank Journals: At Work-10 gal Shrimpy Crypt Jungle, 29 gal Planted Tetra Tank (in progress), At Home- 46 gal Low Tech Planted (in progress), 90 gal New World Community August 2009 Fishing trip in the Amazon; my Journal of 10 days in Bolivia along the Rio San Martin (in progress)

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11-04-2009, 06:08 PM	#3 (permalink)
shane3fan Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Athens Ga. Posts: 24	New filter--I would be scared to put a used one on. I did rinse the filter out-but maybe not good enough? I normally feed them flake food-an assortment of different ones. And none of the others appear to be sick--not in this tank anyway--Ive got a sick Paradise Fish--but thats another story all together.

11-04-2009, 07:46 PM	#4 (permalink)
shane3fan Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Athens Ga. Posts: 24	Crap--just got back from lunch and I checked the fish--one of my Neons now has a white spot on his tail fin--looks like Ich-but it is only one spot. Recommended method to combat Ich in a tank with Corys and Snails? I bumped the heat up a little before I left home. Im sure it will take a little while to warm 29 gallons of water but I remember reading that higher temps help get rid of Ich.

11-05-2009, 02:46 AM	#6 (permalink)
lhscouchmonster Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 15	if the tetras are gasping and no other fish are, it is probably a disease effecting the neons first. The fish are probabaly gasping because they are stressed. tetras are sensitive so they could be showing signs before other fish. it could also be neon tetra disease. i dont know if this is an omen but if you search google for - neon tetra disease plantedtank.net -, this thread is the 3rd result lol. i don't see why the new filter would be hurting the neons your ph looks a little high for tetras but should not cause deaths IME (had them in 8.2 ph once and they were fine) it could be stressing them out and weakening them though

11-05-2009, 01:32 PM	#7 (permalink)
shane3fan Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Athens Ga. Posts: 24	Well, weve made it two full days without any more deaths in this tank. Sadly, my paradise fish died of some sort of fungal issue that I could never get rid of. He was in a seperate tank though. I still only see ONE spot on my neon tetras. It looks like Ich--but only ONE spot?

11-06-2009, 01:54 PM	#8 (permalink)
fish h20 Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: May 2009 Location: Buffalo, WV Posts: 16	I would say Neon tetra disease. I had it in my tank a long time ago. I have seen the white spot. Get rid of that fish. It is only a matter of time. I would say you will lose them all though. Some of the stuff I saw was: Hard time swimming down after eating, loss of color, heavier breathing, more and more effort to swim the same distance. I think your fish may have already had it and with the filter change there may have been a small cycle causing stress and weakening them. I lost all my Neons over a year span to this. Last I knew there was no teatment or cure. If you lose them all I wouldn't get anymore because it will still be in the tank. Cardnal Tetras do not get this disease. You could replace them with those. Good luck! I hope I am wrong!

11-06-2009, 06:31 PM	#9 (permalink)
shane3fan Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Athens Ga. Posts: 24	I have only had one die since I put the HOB filter back on-not sure that made any difference though. They all seem to be doing ok with the swim bladder issue since I cut back on feeding. Thanks for the suggestions--I guess I will just keep an eye on them.

11-06-2009, 06:42 PM	#10 (permalink)
Riiz \|,,\|(-_-)\|,,\| (View User Tanks) PTrader: (1/100%) Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: So Cal - Inland Empire Posts: 207	Also, how fast did you acclimate them to your tank conditions?

11-06-2009, 06:58 PM	#11 (permalink)
shane3fan Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Athens Ga. Posts: 24	They had been in the tank for a couple of months. I wouldnt think acclimation would have anything to do with the deaths at this point--could be wrong though.

11-16-2009, 01:24 PM	#12 (permalink)
shane3fan Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Athens Ga. Posts: 24	Well, after a couple of death free weeks I had two Neons die last night/this morning. Really makes me sad to see this happen to this pretty little fish. Im down to 3 remaining. Im not sure I will put anymore Neon Tetras in a fish tank in the future. Ive only had bad luck with them. I checked the water last night and the results were as I expected ; Ammonia 0 NitrItes 0 pH 7.6 NitrAtes <5 temp 84* ( still elevated trying to eliminate the Ich--one Neon still has a spot of Ich on it. ) I performed a 40% water change after testing--just to be safe-plus it was due for the weekly change. The two fish that died were struggling more than the others to swim--they ate when I fed them though. They eventually sank to the bottom and were kindof standing on their tails vertically in the water--sad to see. Corydoras and Rainbow Shark still seem to be healthy. As a matter of fact I caught some Corys in the 'T' formation shortly after my moon lights came on--naughty little catfish-lol. Im wondering if the stress of my Rainbow Shark chasing the Neons is ultimately the problem. He makes them scatter from time to time by charging into their ever shrinking school. I will start a new thread about that and ask for suggestions. Thanks.

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