Fish in quarantine with random dropsy

[dewalltheway]

Sara,
I have an SAE that has pineconed several times and when I see his fins start to protude, I put him in my QT tank, don't feed him for several days and start him on Melafix and Pimafix for 7 days and this clears him up every time. If you haven't tried these products, I would give it a shot.

[sewingalot]

I am fully aware of dropsy often being a sign of neglect. However, these fish came in with obvious illness, one already had an advanced case of dropsy. They have been ill since day one and I am only trying to come up with the underlying reason so that I can save the fish that are still sick.

I do not overfeed, if any thing, I underfeed. When I feed live foods it is either frozen bloodworms or daphnia) or when I can, I feed freshly hatched brine fish.

I have had these fish in quarantine since day one. I change 25 - 35% of the water twice a week with pretreated, heated water and am careful to remove sick fish to another tank with the same water conditions. I am using separate fish nets, buckets, siphons, everything. So far, this has been very successful at keeping all my other fish from getting sick.

I took a sample of water into another store and they said my tank is in great shape. Here are the tests they took: 7.4 ph, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, less than 5 nitrates, gh 7.

When I was growing up, the types of symptoms they show is "wasting disease." I am at a loss and hope the Maracyn II will help me fix the problem. I am honestly in distress over this and only want to correct the issue.

Thanks for listening (or not) to my rant. I am just so upset with this illness.

[lauraleellbp]

I think you're doing all you can, Sara, and a good job at that. Most of the time I've ever had fish with dropsy, they never got better and died (invariably old fish, and I think it was simply their bodies shutting down with old age).

However, I'm taking it as a good sign that your fish showed some signs of recovery earlier.

Hopefully the issue is an infection that the Maracyn will cure.

[sewingalot]

Originally Posted by dewalltheway

Sara,
I have an SAE that has pineconed several times and when I see his fins start to protude, I put him in my QT tank, don't feed him for several days and start him on Melafix and Pimafix for 7 days and this clears him up every time. If you haven't tried these products, I would give it a shot.

If the maracyn doesn't work, this will be my next method. I just worry I am over medicating the little girl.

Thanks, lauralee. I am really starting to get down over this illness.

[lauraleellbp]

Maracyn II is much stronger and more broad spectrum antibiotic than Mela/Pimafix combo, though I'm a big fan of those personally.

[Karackle]

Originally Posted by lauraleellbp

I think you're doing all you can, Sara, and a good job at that. Most of the time I've ever had fish with dropsy, they never got better and died (invariably old fish, and I think it was simply their bodies shutting down with old age).

However, I'm taking it as a good sign that your fish showed some signs of recovery earlier.

Hopefully the issue is an infection that the Maracyn will cure.

I agree with this completely, I think you are doing what you can and doing a good job too. A

As far as your water conditions, you clearly maintain clean, healthy fish tanks as evidenced by the CPD fry you discovered in the tank with the healthy batch of CPDs!

I hope the maracyn works too!

[plantbrain]

Originally Posted by lauraleellbp

Maracyn II is much stronger and more broad spectrum antibiotic than Mela/Pimafix combo, though I'm a big fan of those personally.

Yep, I'd suggest all 3 in a smaller Q tank, if not, bomb with Maracyn II, then follow up with the Prima and Mela fixes.

Dropsy is certainly a treatable disease, and you should be able to save fish that are not too far gone.

There are many diseases that really are poorly understood and fish have little chance of making it through once they get it. Ick and dropsy and a few others are not among those fortunately.

They are all pretty treatable to if caught early on.

Myxobacteria, various internal parasites, many unknown disease, ones that you cannot tell till it's too late, no obvious signs externally.....thems are difficult to treat/fix or save those fish.

Some fungal diseases are especially difficult to save fish. This leads many fish folks to use tonics and preventative dosing of medications/tonics etc. Primafix etc are good for these approaches and have no ill effects for the paranoid(I have little choice with new fish from a wholesaler to reduce losses).

I wish there was more known about fish pathology for aquatic tropical fish.
There is honestly very very little known.

So prevention, general concepts, excellent feed and tank conditions seems for management to be the best solution. Now while I said paranoid, I suppose I am.......the suggestions above are still going to reduce risk for all fish and also help plants, and the aquarium in general, it's not wasted energy. I get something out of it.

I am not paranoid about algae or plants, I KNOW I can go back and save the plants and morally place much less emphasis of them. Fish is another story. Shrimp? To a lesser degree. Can anyone name a shrimp disease?

We think we know about diseases, but really, we do not know much.
At least this one is is fairly straight forward.


Regards,
Tom Barr

[sewingalot]

Four days into the treatment of maracyn 2 and there are signs of improvement!

From everything I have read, dropsy is basically advanced kidney dysfunction, and is a symptom not an actual diagnosis. Whether this is bacterial, pest related, constipation, or organ failure is the ultimate way of finding a cure. So far, with each of them I have treated: they don't respond to Neomycin, Erthomycin, Parasite Clear (improved for a few days) and Fungus Clear.

However, the Maracyn II and epsom salts are helping, already







Edit: Does anyone else notice the rosy cheeks? I am starting to see this as a pattern on all the sick fish. Could this be leading me to the proper diagnosis?

[mistergreen]

congrats.

It's hard to say about the rosy cheeks. It could be natural for the CPD or it could be stress on the gills from all the meds.

[Karackle]

glad she's look better!

I'm not sure on the rosy cheeks either, makes sense that it could be a bit of gill stress from the meds....do you see it on any of the others?

[mayanjungledog]

Best wishes for a full recovery for your fish. I've only had one experience with with dropsy in a very old female betta. We kept her alive, happy and comfortable for a couple of months by removing fluid from her abdomen a couple of times per week. We treated with an anti-parasitic (fenbendazole), and treated with three different antibiotics in the water and injections to cover all bases (doxycycline, metronidazole, enrofloxacin). I work in the veterinary field and have access to medications and a laboratory that tested the fluid from her abdomen before we started treatment. The fluid was consistent with what you'd find with organ failure, and no bacteria were cultured. In the end, we euthanized the fish and a necropsy was performed. She had a tumor in her abdomen causing her dropsy. From what I'm reading in this thread, I would think it was an infectious cause. Maracyn II is minocycline, which is in a tetracycline family of drugs and has a lot of known bacterial resistance. If you're suspecting that your fish were wild caught, an antiparasitic may not be a bad idea if you haven't already done that. I really hope your fish recover.

[sewingalot]

Originally Posted by mayanjungledog

Best wishes for a full recovery for your fish. I've only had one experience with with dropsy in a very old female betta. We kept her alive, happy and comfortable for a couple of months by removing fluid from her abdomen a couple of times per week. We treated with an anti-parasitic (fenbendazole), and treated with three different antibiotics in the water and injections to cover all bases (doxycycline, metronidazole, enrofloxacin). I work in the veterinary field and have access to medications and a laboratory that tested the fluid from her abdomen before we started treatment. The fluid was consistent with what you'd find with organ failure, and no bacteria were cultured. In the end, we euthanized the fish and a necropsy was performed. She had a tumor in her abdomen causing her dropsy. From what I'm reading in this thread, I would think it was an infectious cause. Maracyn II is minocycline, which is in a tetracycline family of drugs and has a lot of known bacterial resistance. If you're suspecting that your fish were wild caught, an antiparasitic may not be a bad idea if you haven't already done that. I really hope your fish recover.

This is amazing information. I am glad you took the time to post. I actually have treated with liquid fenbendazole. I went to the vet and asked for some a while back for hydra I treated. I figured it couldn't hurt. It was one of the first things I treated for. The maracyn II said I could use another round, should I since the swelling is still there?

As far as the rosy cheeks, they seem brighter and more puffy than normal, so I am thinking you guys are right in thinking it is stress from the medication.

My next course of action is to feed another type of food. I started with the micro pellets and decapped bbs eggs from visionquest. They are much smaller and may aid in digestion. I am also going to start with live foods again to see if this helps with the others.

[lauraleellbp]

Based on the fact that the fish has been responding but is still showing symptoms, I'd do another round of Maracyn.

Keep an eye on your water parameters, as medicating a tank can easily wipe out a biofilter. If you haven't checked, ammonia is another possible cause for red gills, though I suspect it's probably 2ndary to either the infection or treatment.

[sewingalot]

So far, the water parameters are still really good, ammonia and nitrites have stayed at zero on both tanks. I am actually surprised. As of now, the fish is staying her same bloated self. I started a second round of the medication.

[Karackle]

Glad to hear the parameters are good, that will help with the healing

I'm sorry to hear she's still bloated, but it's good to hear she's still fighting! keep up the good work!