German Blue Ram breeding journal!!!

[fishboy87]

I finally got my GBRs from oddballfish.com They arrived quite shaken up because the bag leaked slightly and there was about 1/4 of a cup. The gels that the bags come with to absorb any leaking of the water was soaked. They arrived around 3:00 today and both already have some nice color though are still a little skittish. . .I thought that if they color up this fast that they are usually the hormone-injected ones but please prove me wrong. As requested, I got a male and female. The female is the more skittish of the 2 but when I'm out of sight to them, they seem to venture out together to search their surroundings. Just wanted to share. . .Thanks for reading!!!!

Oh, I can't get any pics right now but I'll try tomorrow if I remember

[demosthenes]

thats awesome! i've been looking into getting a breeding pair of GBR's soon, i'll have to look into that website. good luck with them, they seem like really fun fish to have.

[fishboy87]

Well, my goal/reason for getting rams was to breed them. They started cleaning a certain notch in the driftwood but then go off seemingly in search of another area and that continues like a cycle. Their color seems to be extremely bright which I guess should be another sign. They are also trying to fend off my rummies and otos. Because the 10 gallon tank is not ready and this would be their first spawn, I have no attempt to try to preserve up to the first 3 spawns after what I have read. Those who have successfully raised ram spawns, please chime in on anything I am doing wrong or any tips you might have. Also, the 10 gallon for breeding was intentionally made to be a planted tank so the manzanita was already siliconed to the bottom and has immersed hc already so I used some nice rocks for them to breed on when they go in.

[fishboy87]

10/19:

They laid eggs!!! There seem to be about 200+!! This is the first fish I've ever had lay eggs!! As I've read and previously mentioned, I am going to leave the spawn in there to see what happened. The rummies are not going after the eggs and the mom chases them away if they get anywhere within 3 inches which I find cool. She also chases the male away at every point except when he fertilizes the eggs (not very menacingly though). I'm curious to see what I'll wake up to tomorrow morning. Also, if the fries were to survive to the free-swimming stage, (which would be unexpected) how would I feed them. I have Hikari first bites but i understand that is still too big for the tiny mouths of baby GBRs. I do not have vinegar eels or microworms but plan on hopefully starting a culture soon. I do have frozen daphnia though if that makes a difference. And the pics:



Egg clutch from above


Another pic of the eggs


The male


The female

Please respond and thanks for reading!

[thief]

Wow your very fortunate. What size tank is this?

If you end up raising them a little older give me a call. Your parents look AWESOME!

[fishboy87]

Thief-Thanks. . .I got them off oddballfish.com for about 8$ each plus shipping. The thing that surprises me is that I got them Friday!!! I didn't expect anything for like a month let alone 2 days.

Oh, and it is a 29 gallon. The FTS is in my sig. Go to the last page to see what it looks like around when they spawned.

[HiroPro]

I'd be surprised if anything survives in your community tank. I had a pair breed 3-4 times in my 55G community tank and the eggs always disappeared after a couple of days. I tried removing them but wasn't very succesful. Finally I put a small clay flower pot base in the tank and buried it in the substrate where they alway dug a pit and layed their eggs. They cleared the substrate to the clay base and layed their eggs right on it. I was able to remove the base with the eggs on it and transfer it to a small plastic container so they could hatch.

[MikeP_123]

Just got a pair of gold rams and wanted to breed them. Do you think the fry would survive In a med-heavy planted 55G Tall with only 3 glass shrimp and 4 Van Rios? Also FishBoy, Did you do anything to the tank via water temp/water change/live food/etc?

[fishboy87]

MikeP_123-They would probably be fine with that few amount of total fish but I've heard of glass shrimp eating especially small fry and because tetras are fast, they could get around your parents if they choose to protect the babies. But parents protecting babies is a very rare occasion and most breeders would recommend artificial raising where you move the eggs into a raising tank. As far as changes parameters of the water, feeding, etc., I did a 33% water change and supplemented with frozen blood worms and frozen discus formula (discus formula because it would most likely be high quality if it's made for discus) I raised the temperature before I got them (It's currently 80 but is recommended higher when breeding). When I did the water change, my water through the tap is only filtered when turned cold so that's what I did. The thing that you should be careful about if you choose to do this is that it shouldn't be freezing as rams can be delicate to parameter/temperature changes. Breeders say cold water simulates the rainy season (spawning season) for rams and can help trigger spawning. If your rams pair and spawn, the will continue on about a weekly basis. When feeding the babies (who have especially small mouths for fry) it is recommended to have either a micro worm or vinegar eel culture ready which I am currently making an attempt to obtain. Good luck!!!

10/21:

The eggs were all eaten which was expected. But thanks to my impatient being, if I get a micro worm/vinegar eel culture, I will decide upon artificially raising the next expected batch of eggs. My one question though, is. . .Can I use a turkey baster to suck up the eggs and squirt them into a jar of tank water so I can bring them to the holding tank? Thanks for reading and please respond!

[fishboy87]

10/25:

Either today or tomorrow I will be doing the weekly water changes which I will use half of the water change water to start the cycle on the breeding tank. It's just a 2 gallon plastic tank but I do have an 6 gallon eclipse in the garage that I could also do. Since it's more heat resistant, I might try the eclipse but I'd have to find a place to put it. It will be filtered either way with a red-sea nano filter with a sponge over the intake, it'll be heated by a 25 watt heater set to be about 83degrees and will also have a bubble wand. All I can feed will be micro worms which I am soon going to order. I can crush up flakes as small as I possibly can and I have Hikari first bites for when they get bigger. Also, nobody answered my question about if I can transfer the eggs by a turkey baster to suck them up and squirt them into a jar to transfer them.

[valerietheangel]

Cichlid eggs are fairly sticky so I think you'd have a difficult time with a turkey baster without scraping the eggs off first. The problem with this is that the eggs could be damaged while you're trying to move them. If you MUST move them, remove them with whatever structure they are adhered to. On the other hand, cichlids evolved over thousands of years to have excellent parenting skills. I'm a huge fan of not messing with nature (when possible).

[MikeP_123]

FishBoy - Thanks for the tips! I hope my parents do raise them. Currently my water temp is at 78 sincemy ceiling fan is on full Blast and I do not have a heater set up. (I had one go off and fry all of my fish once, so I don't trust em) Is there any other way to get the water up about 2degrees? I just turned my fan off today and the room is getting nice and warm so I am hoping that will do it. I'll try the water change thing tomorrow and see what happens. How long after the water change do they usually spawn?

I hear that sometimes people put something over the eggs to prevent them from being eaten. You could try like a mesh or rock/cave or something. Do your parents try and protect the eggs?

[fishboy87]

MikeP_123-They can usually spawn within the day of the water change. Mine did within about 5 hours or so. Sorry, but I wouldn't have too many other ideas apart from the heater but 78 isn't anything particularly bad but it's just not the perfect temp. and there never really is a perfect temp. because there are diff. opinions on the topic.

valerietheangel-the spot is the biggest piece of driftwood on my tank and it has moss and such on the other end so it cannot be removed. I could not get the water change done this weekend and I am usually extremely busy during the week so I'll see if I even get a batch this week and I'll just let nature do the rest. If I have any time this week, I'll try to remove the eggs.

[fishboy87]

10/28:

Even though it was 2 days, a lot happened. They laid their second clutch of eggs without even a water change. 2 days later, (today) they hatched and I have wigglers! I also managed to set up a quarantine tank (2 gallons) and sucked up some eggs (like 75 out of the 200) by the process mentioned in the previous posts. I had the tank filled half with tap and half with tank water. I have it filtered with a red sea nano and heated to 79 degrees. The remaining batch was left there. After doing tank work today (trimming) I noticed the absolutely pissed-off parents biting my scissors and hand!! I was a little surprised because I no longer saw any eggs in the usual spot and figured the parents ate them. Long story short. . .I was wrong. There were wigglers moved further to the front of the tank in a sand pit that were most likely moved by the parents. Now I have wigglers in both tanks. Sadly, I have put off getting a micro worm culture too long and I'm going to order one today but I fear the might die before they get here. I will post the progress and comments always welcome!

[fishsandwitch]

Just buy a good heater, set it at 3 degrees higher than you want and then also buy a seperate heat controller if you really dont trust heaters.

Or get a high quality like a stealth and replace every few years and you will be fine...