calling all discus experts!

[reddragon1977]

hello everyone,
my question is in regards to why is there a mandatory requirement of frequent water changes when growing young discus. I am going to be running a heavily planted 90 Gallon low tec sword tank with 5 discus and minimal cleanup crew. Can i get away with weekly water changes of 25%. Do young discus give off large amounts of nitrates or ammoinia? and if so what changes as they become adults? I can keep track of how much food I feed them as to not foul the water with leftovers. Thank you to all that reply.
Cheers!

[lauraleellbp]

Discus have fast metabolisms, especially when young. Juvies need to be fed multiple times a day (many breeders say 5x a day). They require foods that are high in fats and proteins and are messy eaters, which can pollute a tank very quickly. However, these fish are extremely sensitive to ammonia, nitrIte, and nitrAtes. Ideal parameters are 0ppm ammonia, nitrIte and nitrAte, which makes it difficult to raise healthy discus in planted tanks.

It's usually recommended to raise discus in a bare-bottomed tank and do a small water change after every feeding to remove any uneaten food. Once they've reached about 5" you can then transfer them into a planted tank- but weekly 50% water changes are still usually a good idea.

If you want to add discus to your current tank I'd encourage you to save up so you can buy older discus. (That's precisely what I'm doing with my 90gal ATM...)

[YSS]

Also, to learn more about discus, go to simplydiscus.com.

[plantbrain]

Sorry, Discus are not that sensitive nor is there any need, requirement or otherwise to keep NO3 at or near zero.

NO3 derived from fish food, and waste is quite another matter, as every bit will start off as NH4, not directly to NO3.

So keeping discus in planted tanks, as we add KNO3 for a nitrogen source, presents no issue/s.

As far as feeding them, more frequency is better than all at once(most common issue for most folks), also, some decent surface current, low pressure high flow movement in the rear of the tank is very wise.
Also feed a wide variety of foods, do not get stuck just feeding live worms.

If larger and faster fish from fry are the goal, consider a grow out tank (eg bare bottom) that's easier to deal with. If they are just pets and you do not need max size and brood, then you do not worry so much about it.

I bred some in a 90 Gal several times back in the 1990's feeding live brine and frozen foods in a fully planted tank.

NO3's where about 20ppm the entire time.
Plenty for plants.

I still did large water changes, typically 2x a week 50% etc, you can likely get away with fewer, but 2x a week is a good routine for most Discus folks with addition of KNO3, KH2PO4 and traces, with a little GH for color. No KH is needed, some folks have high KH, which is more an issue than GH.
The water change removes the fish waste, not the NO3.
We add the KNO3 back afterwards. The water change keeps any NO3 from building up and adding KNO3 keeps the NO3 from getting too low for plants.
The same applies to the dosing of the other nutrients.
Very simple and no need to test the water.
Do the water change and dose.

GH is a nutrient for plants(Ca and Mg), KH is not unless there's not enough CO2, then some plants might try and use the KH as a carbon source.

I'm not sure why folks still suggest that planted tanks and discus do not go together or that all NO3 is the same when they can come from very different sources and have very very different toxicities.

This has been going on for at least 15 years now.



The goal is not max brood and max size of the discus.
This is not an industrial feedlot farm where we are trying to get max yields.

For breeders over on many discus sites?
It is for them

If that is your goal, then lots of food, frequency and water changes with bare bottom tanks will achieve that.

However, planted tank folks keeping discus do not have that goal, they also want the tank to look nice and more natural and tend not to be so concerned about feedlot style fish culture...........so there's some trade offs.
The biggest misconception is the issue about the source of the NO3, KNO3 vs fish food/waste.



Regards,
Tom Barr

[reddragon1977]

Thanks to all of your for your comments. It all helps out in the end.

[neonmkr]

Ditto to what Tom said.
Keep in mind, WC can be flexible. If your fish seem to be stressed or not doing as well at a current WC routine, increase the amount or the frequency.
Considering what discus go through to get from a breeder or the wild, to your tank proves that they are not as delicate as some would have us think. If your goal is to breed & grow massive fish, than WC every day in large volumes, otherwise, let your fish be the guide to your WC schedule