Randomly dieing fish.

[CaffeinatedCake]

Ho-kay.

In one of my 10g tanks, I had a small school [5] Neon Tetra, and two dwarf Flame gourami and one Male betta [very placid boy with other fish].

Over the past week since introduceing the Neons and Dwarfs [before hand teh tank homed two male bettas, divided, a CAE and a gold gourami for some time while fixing her old tank] have been slowly dieing off.

I've checked my water everyday since the first death [my favorite Betta and one of the dwarf gourami] and my water is near perfect.

My fish were happily swimming around, we left and did some shopping, came back and one of the gourami and my Betta, Leviathan, were dead, sucked lightly against the filter.

I doubt the filter the culprit, as it's low suction and even right now my two surviving Neons are just chilling next to it without much effort to stay in place.

Though I think it may have killed levi, as he was as fit as a betta could be, and was wrapped full length around the filter, but he often wrapped himself around the upper part, so I'm thinking he have wrapped himself around it too low and got stuck..

Anyway, The gourami that died had been hideing a lot in comparison to the other dwarf flame who was bussily investigateing the tank and swimming about. So At first I thought it was just somthing wrong with him.

Then the next day I wake up to a neon floating about. Dead.

Sad, My boyfriend scoops him out when I test the water, Again.

Water is fine.

Next day I'm sitting at my computer, and notice one of my neons that had been hideing out alone, having trouble swimming.

Then he was just floating, belly up, occasional flick of life, then eventualy, Death.

None of the fish that died exhibited any signs of illness before their death, only that they would hide in one of the fake decor or plants, and then within 10-20 hours, they'd be dead..

I just pulled another dead out one today.

My water is as follows:

Nitrates: around 30ppm [I'm comeing up on the weekly WC]

Nirtries: 0

Hardness is around 75

Alkalinitiy: around 100ppm

total pH: 6.8


Other then the random deaths my fish have been fine, Active, their color is well, eating well. I use the same food I feed the rest of my fish [Gourami tank, and two seperate bettas] and they're all fine [other then one of my bettas decideing he's got some tasty fins and loves himself oh so much. Naughty betta. He's doing well and regrowing, though ].

I can't wrap my brain around what could be killing off my fish, but my poor neons are going to become so stressed with only two of them, and I don't really have the money to go buy more because SE [ a gameing company] screwed up the billing for my boyfriend and my FFXI accounts [It's an MMO] ;;

Curses..

I'll have to go see if one of the LFSs is still selling neons for 99c each, though usually they're always out of them ..


Anyway, anyone have any ideas why they'd be randomly dieing when seeming healthy and the water is fine? :/ Guh.

[mistergreen]

introduced disease could be the problem.
The less fish you have in a 10G the better.. Overcrowding is a huge problem. You just have too much in one tank.

[CaffeinatedCake]

Originally Posted by mistergreen

introduced disease could be the problem.
The less fish you have in a 10G the better.. Overcrowding is a huge problem. You just have too much in one tank.

Five Neons and two dwarf gourami are most defenitly not over crowded for a 10g lol.

Each dwarf was around 1.5 inch at best, and neon tetras.. well, they're small, and their bioload is small, and the water is pristine and well, so theres not even signs over overcrowded tank.

And like I said, they showed no outward signs of disease, nor was there any bloating or anything of the such to suggest internal parasite, and everyone was acting fine up until a few hours near their death.

[Torpedobarb]

I would tend to believe a bacterial infection or parasite.. tetras are prone to disease.. trust me.. I know first hand. I have lost so many fish like this. I would say that you should always quarantine fish when you buy them to make sure they are healthy prior to you adding them into your main tank. I would remove the other neons that are still alive and quarantine them if possible.. if not I would start to dose your tank with meds. quick cure, melafix or pimafix. good luck and keep us posted

[CaffeinatedCake]

Originally Posted by Torpedobarb

I would tend to believe a bacterial infection or parasite.. tetras are prone to disease.. trust me.. I know first hand. I have lost so many fish like this. I would say that you should always quarantine fish when you buy them to make sure they are healthy prior to you adding them into your main tank. I would remove the other neons that are still alive and quarantine them if possible.. if not I would start to dose your tank with meds. quick cure, melafix or pimafix. good luck and keep us posted

Thanks, I've heard mixed reviews about tetras, some saying they're super hardy [neons anyway] and others saying they're frail. I've only kept them one other time, and it had been a hand-me-down tank with a big school already present, so I suppose I still have a lot to learn about tetras :[

I just put a dose of quick cure in, and hope those that I have now will at least survive. Hrm.

[Complexity]

Yup, I bet you introduced some kind of bacteria or parasite into the tank with the neons. Even when fish appear healthy, it's best to quarantine them before adding them to your main tank. I have 10 cardinal tetras in Q/T as I type. They've made it through over 2 weeks so it's time to call them healthy and add them to my main tank.

It really doesn't matter which fish you're adding. Just the sheer stress of being moved can cause a previously healthy fish to become susceptible to disease or parasites because the stress lowers their immune systems. Plus, you never know how long the fish were in the store. So the fish could be very stressed from just being shipped from the breeder to the LFS and then to your tank in only a matter of days. By the time you get the fish, they're so stressed, they can't handle that last step — being added into yet another tank with yet another set of water parameters (even if the water parameters are good, it's that they are different that matters).

I don't think you should add anything to that tank until you get the two neons healthy. If they don't make it, then that tank can then become an automatic Q/T when you buy new fish. Once you get healthy fish in the tank again, Q/T any new fish you get before adding them.

[fishscale]

Dollar neons are like a chinese buffet: tempting and always a bad idea.

[CaffeinatedCake]

Originally Posted by fishscale

Dollar neons are like a chinese buffet: tempting and always a bad idea.

These guys were around 2$/each which is about as expensive as they get in my area, as we prefer to shop from the higher priced LFS because their tanks are always in really good condition along with the rest of the animals they stock, but occasionaly they, and another LFS get over stocked on Neons, snails and amano shrimp and cut the price in half, which is what I was refering to, but I suppose I wasn't very clear :[


---

Anyway, the two Neons and the warf flame seem to be doing okay, but I suppose only time will tell, i'll probably wake up to another floater >_<

Poor guys. They seem really on edge though, real twitchy the pair, but I suppose it's due to only being two of them, apposed to the huge school of them from the LFS.

[mistergreen]

Originally Posted by CaffeinatedCake

Five Neons and two dwarf gourami are most defenitly not over crowded for a 10g lol.

You left out your CAE & betta, homeslice.

CAE
http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_G..._aymonieri.php
grow to be 7-8 inches.. And they'll attack anything close by.

[markopolo]

how is your temperature? is it fluctuating or staying steady? sometimes the neons you buy are just poor stock and all die off like that believe me i know

[CaffeinatedCake]

Originally Posted by mistergreen

You left out your CAE & betta, homeslice.

CAE
http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_G..._aymonieri.php
grow to be 7-8 inches.. And they'll attack anything close by.

They were there before hand, I moved them to a larger tank, if you'd note I said it's previous inhabitants :[

" [before hand teh tank homed two male bettas, divided, a CAE and a gold gourami for some time while fixing her old tank] "

Was what I had said, the Gold Gourami and CAE got moved once their tank was cleaned up/fixed

One betta was taken out too [obviously since I kept one free roaming in the 10g, who died :[ ]

[Complexity]

Even the best of LFS will have fish that carry bacteria and parasites. It comes in with the fish they receive. And unless the store wants to Q/T their own stock with every new delivery, they're going to end up selling those fish to their customers.

Some stores make the diseases worse with poor handling of the new fish. But even the best of stores can't control what the breeders send them in terms of sick vs. healthy fish.

And then there's the stress factor of being shipped and all, as I mentioned above.

When I'm in a trusted LFS, I try to find out how long they've had the fish before I buy them. If it's been a day or two, I pass. If it's been 10-14 days, then I'm all for it. I especially like getting the very last fish left and fish in display tanks because they've had a chance to recuperate in the LFS before I uproot them once again to put them in my tank.

When a store has too many of any kind of fish, it usually means they just received a new shipment of that fish. So, in general, you're usually looking at newly arrived fish. The stores will put these on sale because they know many of the fish will die so they want to unload them fast. They'd rather get a dollar for the fish than lose all their money to the ones that die in their tanks. The odds of people bringing back the dead fish for a refund are very low so the store still comes out ahead. Once the first round of fish are culled out, by dying or sale priced purchases, they raise the price back up. Those are the healthy fish the stores knows won't be dying before they can get sold so there's no need to rush the fish out the door.

Another incentive is that when people's fish die, they usually want more fish. So the store gets its dollar for the newly arrived fish that may have died in their tanks, AND they get to sell more fish when the customer returns to replace their dead ones. You've illustrated that very well by already indicating you want to buy more to replace the dead fish. AND then add in the sales made from medications people use to try to save their dying fish. More profit.

When you put it all together, selling sick fish can be more profitable than selling healthy ones as long as it's not so bad that the customers refuse to come back for their meds and replacement fish.

Even a very good LFS still has to make a profit, and in today's economical climate, worldwide mass fish production, and huge chain stores like Petsmart and Petco who can sell for less due to economies of scale discounts, it's not easy for the regular LFS to make that profit. So sometimes they have to do what they have to do.