***Name these spots!***

[Saraja87]

I've noticed that a couple of my fish seem to be turning black. It's not like they're being covered with something, more like the scales themselves are darkening. The darkening seems to happen around the face, while a few of my Columbian tetras have black blotches. I've treated everyone for parasites/intestinal pests of every variety and have started them on kanamycin antibiotic food. Everyone is eating and behaving normally.

This could have something to do with Bub, my blue gourami who had a bacterial infection a while back. He was removed to a hospital tank and treated until all his booboos healed, although he continues to have swim bladder disorder. While this makes him rather buoyant and he spends all his time at the surface, he still gets around well and eats heartily and I don't have the heart to put him down.


Columbian spots


Flag fish with darkened face

Can anyone name these spots/blotches? Any and all input is appreciated!

[blazeyreef]

I am thinking maybe parasites?

[lescarpentier]

I'm not sure if it is the same thing or not but I had a similar thing happen to my Columbian tetras,only the black spots took on a vertical pattern.Only the Columbians were affected though.They both died,and I finally attributed it to the very high levels of nitrate that I had at that time.If my theory is correct,Columbian tetras have a low tolerance to high nitrate levels.

[Saraja87]

Are you thinking internal or external? The guy over at Angelsplus suggested the same thing (internal) because I feed frozen food, so i treated them with both levamisole and metronidazole in their food to cover worms and protozoans. However, they have normal healthy fishy poop and the spots are still there.

[Saraja87]

I'll check my nitrates when I get home Usually I have 0, regardless of any fertilizer, because my water spite sucks up everything lol. I haven't checked it in a few weeks though, so that could be it. Thank you for the suggestion!

[lauraleellbp]

I've heard the same thing about Colombian tetras- they develop some sort of skin/scale disorder as they get older (makes me suspect some sort of nutrient deficiency??)

Odd that the Florida Flagfish seems to be suffering the same issue, though... makes more sense to me to suspect an external parasite over an internal, if the fish are eating and otherwise behaving normally...

Have you tried salt treatment for a week? 1/2 tsp per gallon is what I use with sensitive fish like tetras. This might help with an external infection of some sort. And/or Melafix and Pimafix might be good choices.

[Saraja87]

Originally Posted by lauraleellbp

I've heard the same thing about Colombian tetras- they develop some sort of skin/scale disorder as they get older (makes me suspect some sort of nutrient deficiency??)

Have you tried salt treatment for a week? 1/2 tsp per gallon is what I use with sensitive fish like tetras. This might help with an external infection of some sort. And/or Melafix and Pimafix might be good choices.

I've never heard that about Colombians before but it wouldn't surprise me. They are fed a diet of vitamin flake, balanced blend, frozen blood worms, frozen brine shrimp, and frozen beef heart. Maybe I should add some vegetable matter? I've heard fish like frozen peas?

All my flakes are ordered from www.angelsplus.com which has awesome flake food, I'd highly recommend them. I treat with their medicated flakes as well. I could also try increasing their amount of vitamin flake.

I have a big bottle of epsom salt, is the dosage the same for large tanks? They are in a 110/115 and I'd like to treat the whole tank if it is in fact an external parasite.


Vitamin flake:
Immune boosting flake.
Analysis: Min. Protein - 45%, Min. Fat - 14%, Max. Fiber - .7%, Max Moisture - 4.5%
Spray Dried Salmon, Wheat Oat & Gluten Flours, Brewers Yeast, Shrimp, Plankton and Krill Meal, Frozen Brine Shrimp, Dried Kelp, Fish Oil, Lecithin, Vitamin C.
Supplement Booster: Calcium carbonate, Vitamin E, d1 Calcium Pantothenate, Niacin, D-Biotin, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Mendadione Susium Bisulfite Complex, Puridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin A acetate, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3, Vitamin B12, Vitamin B Complex.

Balanced Blend:
For those who want it all…we developed a truly “balanced” blend of our favorite premium flakes. High quantities of meat and plants are complimented by very effective color enhancers. This flake is the perfect diet for your community tank where it is important to satisfy the needs of all your fish.

[Blue Ridge Reef]

Looking at the Columbian tetras, the fish appear affected with Melanosarcoma, a malignant growth. Sadly, no treatment is known and to the best of my knowledge, it's 100% fatal. The flagfish almost looks to be healthy. The darkening is on a vertical bar, and may just be a color variation. The only other explanation would be an internal flagellate infestation, treat with Metronidazole, and feed some f/d daphnia to keep the "plumbing" clean.
Please keep us posted with photos as this progresses/regresses, and I hope they pull out of this!

[lescarpentier]

Originally Posted by Blue Ridge Reef

Looking at the Columbian tetras, the fish appear affected with Melanosarcoma, a malignant growth. Sadly, no treatment is known and to the best of my knowledge, it's 100% fatal. The flagfish almost looks to be healthy. The darkening is on a vertical bar, and may just be a color variation. The only other explanation would be an internal flagellate infestation, treat with Metronidazole, and feed some f/d daphnia to keep the "plumbing" clean.
Please keep us posted with photos as this progresses/regresses, and I hope they pull out of this!

Now I think that we are getting somewhere.I had 3 die of this malady but they were from 2 different batches,at 2 different times.Strange.However none of my other fish were affected.Where does this Melanosarcoma come from,and is it some kind of cancer?Why were none of the other fish ever affected?

[Saraja87]

These guys have had it for quite some time now (months) and still appear to be otherwise healthy. How long does it take for the Columbian's to die? I checked the fish pharmacy site which said pretty much the same thing, a growth or a parasite infestation, but other than that I can't find any information. I also have a bleeding heart tetra whose nose turned solid black, but he's been that way for years and still seems fine. I couldn't get a good picture of him to put up. Is there any reason multiple fish would come down with the same thing?

[lescarpentier]

I wish that I could remember,but I know that mine survived at least a few months.The darkening became progressively worse and towards their end they liked to stay in a top corner away from any current.Amazingly they ate until shortly before their deaths.When their end finally came,it did end quickly.

[Blue Ridge Reef]

Originally Posted by lescarpentier

Now I think that we are getting somewhere.

I hope so. I'm intrigued about this one.

Originally Posted by lescarpentier

I had 3 die of this malady but they were from 2 different batches,at 2 different times.Strange.However none of my other fish were affected.

It's not supposed to be contagious, but "batches" of fish tend to get it.

Originally Posted by lescarpentier

Where does this Melanosarcoma come from,and is it some kind of cancer?

Yes, my best understanding is that it's supposed to be a "cancer" of sorts. If this is indeed the ailment, there is no turning back, all infected fishes die. I suspect there is some toxin/carcinogen that triggers it. I almost hope for a shipment in which some come down with it, to see if carbon filtration, frequent r/o PWC's, etc. make a difference.

Originally Posted by lescarpentier

Why were none of the other fish ever affected?

It isn't communicable. Why it can happen in numbers at all is a mystery. I have to think there is a "poison" that triggers it, similar to "brown lung" in coal mining, except in the aquarium. My guess would be that it's a substance we hobbyists don't test for, though.

[lescarpentier]

Originally Posted by Blue Ridge Reef

It isn't communicable. Why it can happen in numbers at all is a mystery. I have to think there is a "poison" that triggers it, similar to "brown lung" in coal mining, except in the aquarium. My guess would be that it's a substance we hobbyists don't test for, though.

Could this mystery "trigger" be extremely high nitrate levels? That is what I had in my tank,and the only thing that I could associate it with.

[Blue Ridge Reef]

That could certainly be a contributing factor. I'd be surprised if that was all though, because I've seen it on Congo tetras in a heavily planted tank you couldn't keep nitrate levels in. But I'm open to the possibility, even 1-2 ppm nitrates should be unnatural to most of these fish species that come down with Melanosarcoma.

[Saraja87]

huh, this certainly is not what I was expecting. Should I treat for other problems just in case?