All About Discus

[fishboy87]

The discus that I'm going for would be older juviniles around 4-5" Again I will put this link up to show what I'm trying to get close to http://www.nobobo.com/ Great site, cool plants, and a setup that looks like all of the fish are happy. . .The number of fish I'm going for in my 125 is x4-6 discus/x25-35 rummynoses/x15-20 corys(to clean up what the others missed)/x10 hatchets/x3rainbows/x10-15 cardinals (if that is too much tell me) and also, can some species of large cleaner shrimp work well in the tank as a cleaner crew or will they just be another snack?

[Sponsors]

[lauraleellbp]

I've heard mixed things about the whole discus/shrimp issue- to the point that I think it just depends on the discus. If they're captive-bred they may be a little less likely to be used to hunting down shrimp, but that's just guesswork on my part.

I'm personally planning on stocking with the 20 of the biggest adult RCS and amanos I can find and see what happens.

I'd nix the rainbows, I believe they prefer harder water, would do better in a larger school, and the biotope snobby part of me says they don't belong in a discus tank (neither do RCS or amanos either but what can I say- I'm a hypocrite! LOL)

Other than that, it looks good to me- you could try oto cats if you're worried about the shrimp.

Oh- and if you want to KEEP hatchets in your tank a canopy isn't optional (if you don't want a canopy, my cat would love to come visit your house sometime )

[fishscale]

Discus will eat shrimp and even small fish if they get hungry. However, they are not voracious predators like angels and won't eliminate every single one, especially if you keep them well fed.

[plantbrain]

They are not as bad as angels, I agree, but they will eat them if they can nab them.

SAE's are an alternative, but there's a whole thing there as well.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[fishboy87]

Yeah. . .Discus, I'd feed 2-3 times a day and actually I completely forgot about the otos and I knew there was some peaceful algae eater that I'm forgetting. . .Thanks! If there isn't an option for rainbows, than can I try some swordtails because I've kept them and the main reason they died was from jumping out of the tank and I know that they have a wide acceptance range of conditions. Also, I found a good deal on discus that are $39.79 each if you buy 3 or more at the size of 2.5-3.5". Is there a way that I can maintain discus this small in a tank like this???

[lauraleellbp]

I personally wouldn't advise it due to the massive feeding vs. pristine water needs of juvenile discus (see http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/ge...re-bottom.html for a VERY long discussion) but it can be done if you're willing to do massive water changes...

IMO you'll end up in a catch-22 position where you either have to prioritize your discus our your plants to the detriment of the other...

I was also originally planning on raising juvie discus in my 90gal but after some pretty heavy research decided to wait till I can afford adults. I simply don't have time for those frequent feedings or water changes.

[fishboy87]

I'm not concerned about the feedings as much as I am about the water changes. I am willing to attempt to do about 10% 4 times a week or 20% 2 times a week. But I also have some great filtration---a 1000L pond filter which I'd add a ton of "beneficial bacteria growers" like bio-balls to help even more. Also, I'd be going for a majorly planted tank so hopefully that would take out some of the nitrates and phosphates.

What is the discus growth rate if everything goes as planned as far as good water changes and feedings. I'm trying to learn everything I can about keeping discus but there always seems to be more to learn and then more of a challenge. If I can get them to grow to an adult size within 1/2 to 1 year, that would be great (so I can slightly ease up on water changes).

[lauraleellbp]

IMO you'd do better all around with a separate bare-bottom-bare-bones discus grow-out tank if you want maximum growth. Feeding meaty, fatty foods 5x/day and keeping up with those water changes to maintain 0ppm ammonia, nitrites and nitrates will be a million times easier in the long run if you don't try to do that in a planted tank.

[blkrob]

So how long until your tank is up and running? I'm in the general area with a 135 I'm trying to see how your stocking turns out. So thanks for all questions and comments can't wait to see the results.

[plantbrain]

Originally Posted by fishboy87

I'm not concerned about the feedings as much as I am about the water changes. I am willing to attempt to do about 10% 4 times a week or 20% 2 times a week. But I also have some great filtration---a 1000L pond filter which I'd add a ton of "beneficial bacteria growers" like bio-balls to help even more. Also, I'd be going for a majorly planted tank so hopefully that would take out some of the nitrates and phosphates.

What is the discus growth rate if everything goes as planned as far as good water changes and feedings. I'm trying to learn everything I can about keeping discus but there always seems to be more to learn and then more of a challenge. If I can get them to grow to an adult size within 1/2 to 1 year, that would be great (so I can slightly ease up on water changes).

Then you may want to design nthe tank to have semi automated water changes then.

Basically hard plumbing the tap refill and a drain valve. You turn a valve to drain, you turn another to fill.

Why work and do so much labor when it's not needed?

You can automate a water change, you cannot automate test kits like PO4/NO3 and auto calibrate etc.

You also cannot measure NH4 effectively at the levels that are generally detrimental to developing fish.

0.06ppm etc or less are out the range of most test kits hobbyists ever see.
and that's about the critical toxic level where fish health is starting to be influenced.

Forget NO3.........it's not even remotely as problematic to development as NH4.

If anyone tells you otherwise, run

And where does the NO3 start off as ands come from?
Fish food, which turns into? NH4.

A good fish filter will prevent it from building up high, but it's still there at low levels. Every atom of mNO3 started off as NH4 unless you add KNO3 etc.

So are sublethal effects of NH4 from fish waste bad for fish?
I'd say they are.
Much more than NO3 and a little more than NO2.

The only ways to really remove NH4, water changes or Zeolite or lots of plants relative to the fish load(light fish load, heavy plant load).

Many do the 2x a week 50 % water change.

If you bother with 10% water changes, why is it any more trouble to do 50%?
You drag all the junk out for a WC anyway, may as well do a good size one.

Or be smart and set it up to reduce labor, hard plumb a valve system or a simple garden hose that you snap in and can drain and fill fast with a turn of a valve.

Every tank I have is like this.
It also is set up so I back wash the filters when I drain the tank.

So I rarely clean the filter and never need to worry about the bioload or water parameters. One simple thing that does not take much effect.

I think aquarist are very very prone to putting up barriers in their way where there are not any. They often go to extra ordinary length to avoid thing. Use the info to work around things and think about them logically.

What is it that you do not like to do in the hobby and what do you not mind?

Water changes
Filter cleanings,
Worrying about over feeding etc
Testing.

The automated water changes or semi automation resolves these at low cost.

Most garden hoses can reach anywhere in anyone's residence.
And a small Little giant sump pump can send water out of basements or anywhere up 15-20 ft, and refill from a RO vat etc.

So you can use a pump method like Reef folks adding new marine water.
All this means the plants and the fish will do much better if you simply do this one thing.

Plants have never shown any negative response to WC's, always positive responses.

So this method helps both.

So the real resolution/answer is finding a simple water change method to reduces the labor.

I can do a 50-60% WC on a 90 gallon tank in 10 minutes.
Not touch a bucket. Not lift much or anything, clean the tank, prune here and there, backwash the filter, add ferts.

I'd challenge anyone to beat that time and agree it's less labor than using test kits, buckets, clean their filter etc. And also clean their glass and prune here.

Find solutions, not barriers.

Regards,
Tom Barr