Bad SAEs (56K warning)

[footbeat]

I caught them red handed!!! I am watching one of them and I see it munching the edge of my wisteria as I type. I thought the damage was caused by snails. Now I'm thinking these guys might have contributed to my failure with Rotala wallichii, HC, and HM. Has anyone else had a similar issue? I'm pretty sure these are true SAEs.

My Java fern, Alternanthera reineckii, Rotala indica, moss, Lobelia cardinalis, and Eleocharis acicularis are unharmed by them.

They are a pain to catch. I just spent a half an hour trying to net one. No luck. I can see I'll have to get creative. If I can't catch them, I'll keep them until I tear down the tank in the future. If I can catch them... RAOK!!!

Regards,
Mike

[mistergreen]

don't worry about it.. wisteria grows like crazy and needs a little munching.

And I doubt they're the problem for your rw, hc, hm. It's more like nutrients & CO2.

try feeding them algae & catfish wafers if you don't want them to much on the plants.

[imeridian]

The bottom areas of my Rotala wallichi have been stripped by the SAEs, they have left the well growing top parts unharmed though. I contribute the "damage" more to the fragility of the plant, basically all growth prior to being in my tank (recently was given this plant by a forum member) has been removed.

[Rev2eight]

I made the terrible mistake of putting 2 SAEs into my 20long with java moss. These guys went to work on the moss and completely ignored the algae. I found that the trick to catching them was to wait 2-3 hours after lights out and net them while they slept. Youll know when theyre sleeping when you see them sitting motionless at the bottom. Give the glass a good tap just for good measure.

[mistergreen]

the plastic bottle trap worked for me.

[loachlady5]

Originally Posted by indiboi

The bottom areas of my Rotala wallichi have been stripped by the SAEs, they have left the well growing top parts unharmed though. I contribute the "damage" more to the fragility of the plant, basically all growth prior to being in my tank (recently was given this plant by a forum member) has been removed.

They decimated my myriophyllum plant. They seem to quickly destroy these fine leaf plants - the tasty ones at least. This is one of the reasons I gave them back to the LFS. They got fat and started eating plants. They also at the BBA, but it wasn't worth the plant loss. Someone posted once that getting all males (I think it was males) can help with this problem. I don't know if it's true. Do a search, and I think you'll find quite a bit about this problem. BTW, they got mildly aggressive and b/c of their fast movements and size, my clowns went into hiding (at least I think that's what happened). They came out and seemed to really enjoy their environment once the SAE's were gone. I don't mean to be negative - many people love them and they have their benefits. For my tank, though, the negatives outweighed the benefits.

[imeridian]

In my case I'm quite certain the plant damage was the result of algae being on the leaves, or the leaves were damaged already because of their extended stay in an unlit bucket while waiting for me to pick them up. If the SAE was really interested in eating the plant, the healthy tops would also be eaten. I've had my SAEs for something like 1.5 years, this is the first time they've ever damaged anything (the one is 6" long, the other more like 4"). I think I have a male & female, as they were the same size when I got them.

[loachlady5]

Forgot to mention - make sure they are true SAE's.

[imeridian]

That's a good point, the vast majority of these fish are mislabeled, SAEs as Flying Foxes and Flying Foxes as SAEs. It's not difficult to tell the difference once one is made aware of those differences.

[footbeat]

I am sure these are true SAEs, i.e., Crossochelilus siamensis. When I bought them, I did enough research to convince myself that I had the real thing.

Mistergreen: True the wisteria does grow like crazy, but all of the old leaves are ratty from all the chewing. The CO2 is around 30ppm, verified by pH/KH chart and drop checker with 4 KH reference solution. The nutrients are all overdosed using EI. I am religious with the dosing. The HM and HC started out OK, but it seems like leaves started missing, not melting. I attribute this to the SAEs taking a while to learn that they were good to eat. The growth tips would branch and branch, but the new leaves would never have a chance to unfurl. I have no evidence of nutrient deficiencies in any of the other plants, no algea problems, except for a bit of GSA that gets scraped off every week. This is due to too much light, but I'm not unhappy with this.

I feed them algae wafers at least once a week, along with Hikari micro pellets, and frozen blood worms, so they aren't starving.

indiboi: The tops grew with my R. wallichii, but the leaves were eaten down to stumps as fast as they grew. The older leaves at the bottom turned brown and were left uneaten, quite the reverse of what happened to you.

I have a decent amount of algae on the oldest leaves of my A. reineckii and the Java fern, but everything else is new growth and algae free, so I don't think it is algae damage in my case.

loachlady5: Myriophyllum started dying from the bottom up, as is common with this plant, in my tank. But then the SAEs discovered it too. Bye bye parrotsfeather. I will try to find that post about the males. I think I've got one male and three females, because three are huge and one is less than huge.

I am sure of the identity based on this http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/

I will give the plastic bottle trap a try.

[footbeat]

So I tried the plastic bottle approach. I cut a small hole in the bottom of the bottle. Through that hole is a string to which an algae wafer is tied. I also tied a string to the mouth of the bottle. The idea is this: The algae wafer will start outside of the mouth of the bottle. Once the fish discover it and start their feeding frenzy, I will slowly draw it into the bottle. Then the fish will swim in. With luck, the algae eaters will swim in, at which point, I yank the bottle out and into the hospital tank they go.

The result so far...



If you look carefully, you can see two platies are already inside. Only the platies were brave enough to go in. This picture was taken after about 30 minutes. The SAEs have a slight air of self-satisfaction about them. And one is cleaning the bottle, taunting me as I type as if to say, "Stupid Human!!!"

[crazy loaches]

I tried a bottle trap... cought enough loaches to reset it about 5 times one day but never an SAE. They have also been the hardest fish to catch in my whole experience. Out of my group of like 6 I was able to catch 2 by net to move to my 240g, the rest will have to wait until I tear the tank down to get, I tired for like a few hours and gave up. I just hope I am not making a mistake putting them in my 240g, since I'll never be able to get em out.

[waterfaller1]

Best method for fast fish removal{I have done this with a 90 gal reef full of live rock}
Get some water change water ready{the bonus}
Get several 5 gal buckets{of course depending on how big your tank is}
several feet of clear 3/4 " tubing
Remove water to buckets{usually you can go down to a few inches}
Remove fish
Replace water

[fishscale]

Another thing you could try is a bottle with the ends cut off, and then using two nets on either side. Fish are more likely to swim in if they can swim out the other side. But, equally difficult, and if they escape, they are not likely to go back inside.

[kitfoxdrvr]

Six months ago this was a corner FILLED with R. wallichii. Now it is some stems and shaggy growth. And I am still trying to get the SAE out of this tank. Mine aren't shy about eating it, they will graze off and on all the time. Sad...this is one of my favorite plants.



Steve