the plague!

[Oqsy]

i have no idea what is going on with the fish in my 29 gallon right now, but i'm having a severe die-off. In the last couple of weeks I've lost 2 rams, (4 more are sick), 2 guppies, 5 white clouds, 1 celebes rainbow, and have countless others that are extremely sick looking. one of my mollies and 4 more rams are about to go at any time. I hate losing any fish, but I'm particularly worried about the apparent contagious nature of my problem. I've got cardinal tetras on hold at lfs, and was planning on ordering some live rams in the next week or two, but there's no way I'm putting them in a tank with this kind of trouble. The only real symptoms the fish have are heavy breathing, swollen gills, and pineconing scales with distended bellies. I've treated with 2 rounds of EM and 1 round of metrodiazole. Any suggestions for other meds? Should I pull the healthy looking fish into quarantine so I can nuke that tank before the new fish arrive, and put the sick looking ones in another quarantine? I've dealt with sick fish plenty of times, but this particular problem is stumping me, and I've never had so many fish die at once, especially after a treatment of antibiotics and anti-parasitics. oh, water parameters

ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 10~12
phosphate .5-1
temp. 77
water is changed once to twice a week and dechlor-d with prime
dosed with Aquarium Pharm. EM for 2 full courses
dosed with Jungle's Parasite Clear (metrodiazole, acriflavine, etc) for one full course.
water changed with each treatment per directions.

there haven't been any changes in the tank that I can think of at all in the last few weeks.

Oqsy

[BlueRam]

Oqsy:

I can feel for you. I lost two batches of rams this way. (Fine for a week and then sudden mass die off with panting etc.) A lot of the symptons sound like bacterial but that could be secondary. I would love to know more about what is going on too as all I can do is speculate. Do you have any fish geeks that could do an autopsy or a microscope?

[Oqsy]

no... i have a microscope, but no idea what to look for... i guess i could start looking for patho and histo info for the more common infections and parasites. grrr. i *really* don't want to tear the tank down, as I just got my pressurized CO2 tweaked, ferts in order, and almost all algaes erradicated (except staghorn). However, with the fish I'm planning on adding, I really can't afford to take chances that they'll be infected as well. this hobby can be so relaxing one day, and so frustrating the next. some days I just wonder....

Oqsy

[BlueRam]

If you can find find a book on fish disease it might be fun to take a look. I would biosopy the gills/ intestine/ fins to start with. In general you are looking for nasty looking things that move but a book would get you started on bacteria/flukes etc. As always, fresh is better as many things disappear when thawed. The GSAS is luck to have an expert that looks at dead fish. Quite the presentation!

[ThomE]

Originally Posted by BlueRam

If you can find find a book on fish disease it might be fun to take a look. I would biosopy the gills/ intestine/ fins to start with.

I would look at gills first. They are pretty much the biggest sign.

Please wear gloves when cutting in to the fish. You don't know what killed it or if it started to attract extra bugs because it's decomposing.

pineconing scales with distended bellies

Signs of Dropsy. Always wash your hands after you deal w/ your tank. - There isn't a feasible cure for this.

[RoseHawke]

...pineconing scales with distended bellies.

Isn't that dropsy? Or is dropsy more just a description of a symptom rather than a specific disease?

[Oqsy]

yes. dropsy is a symptom of a larger problem, ie fungus or bacterial infection (sometimes secondary to parasites). anyway, I got a quote on the wild rams today... i'm biting at the bit to get them... poo.

Oqsy