HELP! Lemons dying

Work In Progress · 04-01-2003, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Now I feel really stoopid. So whats new

Actually you had what is commonly referred to as, a "Kell Moment".
Trust me I have you beat on this board so far

Kelly

JimmyD · 04-02-2003, 05:08 PM

No deaths since I lowered the temp Rickster. The oxygen may have been it. Here's my new theory: Perhaps my DIY Co2 bottle was depleted, although it was still bubbling. The loss of Co2 caused the ph swing, and in conjunction with the high temp/lack of O2, it was too much for the tetras. Sound good?
I have since started my double bottle DIY and have been checking ph morning and night. The ph was swinging from 7.2 - 7.6 between day and night. Since the bottles have been adding Co2, the ph has been steady at 7.2 (could even be 7.0 hard to tell sometimes) the last four times I have checked.
Assuming that the high temp and ph swing caused by the possibly depleted co2 bottle were the cuplprits, I have to come up with a plan to prevent this from reoccurring. The temp is easy to fix. With the 2-bottle Co2 system, I am thinking of switching one bottle out every two weeks. Sound good?
I am so ready to run to the LFS this weekend and buy a tankful of neons and lemons!! (Stubborn that way I guess.)
Thanks again for the assistance everyone, and further advice/guidance would be great.

JimmyD · 04-03-2003, 12:02 AM

Argh. Lost another neon sometime today. PH has held around 7.0 night and day for three days. Temp has been fluctuating though. It's a submersible Hagen PreSet 300w. Have it set to 76, the tank was reading 78, now 80? Maybe need a new heater?

Rickster · 04-03-2003, 11:06 AM

Bummer. hey are fairly delicate fish. As for the heater, I have a 250 watt Ebo Jager in my 90. It holds the temp rock steady at 78. Have had it for about 7 years now. I highly recommend them.

JimmyD · 04-03-2003, 10:26 PM

Lost yet another neon today. I'm about to write this off as beyond me to fix, just want to make sure there is nothing else I can try.
My temp is 78.
I am running the emperor 280/biowheel with renew instead of charcoal.
Fertilize 2x a week with seachems trace & seachems pottassium.
My PH has been steady at 7.0
Ammonia/Nitrites zero
GH4/KH3
My 2 bottle DIY Co2 is humming along.
Weekly 30% water changes.
It has been just over a week, I have lost 6 lemon tetras/5 neon tetras at a steady rate of 0-2 deaths a day. No signs of infection. Some fish off by selves moving mouths quickly just before death. Dead fish look healthy, except they are dead.
My platies have not been affected.
There must be something else I have not thought of. As always, thanks for the help.

Jim

Rickster · 04-04-2003, 11:20 AM

I talked to my LFS owner. He's not just a fish store owner he actually has a masters degree in marine biology. Anyway he says that most if not all the neos and cardinals are wild caught. And while they go through some quarrantine(SP?) process it is very and I mean very minimal. So alot of times they come in with who knows what desease in them. Before he sell neons he keeps them for a week with a not for sale sign on the tank. This tank is his medicated holding tank just for neons. He says that even with his efforts he still loses about 25 to 30%. So if you really want neons, keep buying them until enough of them survive.

SNPiccolo5 · 04-04-2003, 10:54 PM

Yes, if you want neons, count on a 30-50% die off. Acclimating them very slowly does help (like very very slowly).

-Tim

JimmyD · 04-07-2003, 03:34 PM

Thanks for the info. I'm hopefull things will settle down on their own. I have been saving the dead neons in a ziploc, the lfs only gaurantees for 48 hours, but..there are ways around that! I only wish that my lemons had survived, little guys were entertaining!

JimmyD · 04-07-2003, 11:43 PM

No deaths for 4 days. Almost picked up some replacement lemons today. I have read that the cardinals are caught and the neons are raised. Although, every website and book seems to say something different. Can anyone recommend a good reference book on freshwater aquarium fish? Also, since I'll be restocking soon, were my lemon tetras and platies too big for the neons?

JimmyD · 04-08-2003, 01:55 AM

Tonight I noticed that the smallest neon of the 5 that survived is being picked on by the other 4 neons. His fins are tattered and he hides. Could this be due to the school being too small?

JimmyD · 04-11-2003, 02:38 PM

not to be discouraged, i bought 5 lemons at the lfs last night, it was cool the way the two surviving lemons and the 5 new ones instantly schooled up.... I'm getting a little choked up thinking about it. I know I should wait, but the lfs had glowlights and I can never find them, so i think im going back to get a school today. They had some cool zebra red-finned loaches too...ever hear of them?

digger · 04-11-2003, 03:10 PM

Yeah, 82 seems like it could be a bit high. Tetras prefer 68-76 degree F water. Neon tetras would like a lower ph than what you have.

JimmyD · 04-16-2003, 08:25 PM

Ok, it is happening again. One of my lemons that survived the die-off is off by himself, kinda twitching, not eating, and I have noticed his tail is higher that his head. I have spotted Ich on my new glolights and discussed it in another thread. The white spots are gone from the glolights, and there is no sign of it on the sick lemon or any other fish. I ran across a good page on disease:
http://madhunag.tripod.com/diseases.html
They write about head down/tail up as a bacterial infection. I have added some salt to the tank, and plan to add more tonight to bring it up to 1 tblspoon for every 5 gallons. I am considering Maracide and maybe Melafix.
I also thought about removing the sick lemon to save the rest of my fish, I have no other tanks.
Any suggestions on how to proceed? Thanks, Jim

JimmyD · 04-17-2003, 01:29 PM

Was reading info from Mardel about ich:
Note: Some fish do not develop spots on the skin. Heavy infections may be on the gills and show no evidence of disease on other parts of the body.
Could I simply be dealing with Ich? I have seen evidence of Ich, but the sick lemon has no white spots. My water is great and only one lemon showing symptoms. Tried to net him for a salt dip last night.....yeah right! He wasn't exactly cooperating. ever seen how fast a lemon can really swim?

04-03-2003, 11:06 AM	#34 (permalink)
Rickster Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Poolesville,Maryland Posts: 149	Bummer. hey are fairly delicate fish. As for the heater, I have a 250 watt Ebo Jager in my 90. It holds the temp rock steady at 78. Have had it for about 7 years now. I highly recommend them. __________________ Eheimpimp#137 90 gallon tank with water and some fish. Plants died and tank overrun with algae. Lights nearly burst into flames last weekend. Needs lots of help

04-03-2003, 10:26 PM	#35 (permalink)
JimmyD Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 83	Lost yet another neon today. I'm about to write this off as beyond me to fix, just want to make sure there is nothing else I can try. My temp is 78. I am running the emperor 280/biowheel with renew instead of charcoal. Fertilize 2x a week with seachems trace & seachems pottassium. My PH has been steady at 7.0 Ammonia/Nitrites zero GH4/KH3 My 2 bottle DIY Co2 is humming along. Weekly 30% water changes. It has been just over a week, I have lost 6 lemon tetras/5 neon tetras at a steady rate of 0-2 deaths a day. No signs of infection. Some fish off by selves moving mouths quickly just before death. Dead fish look healthy, except they are dead. My platies have not been affected. There must be something else I have not thought of. As always, thanks for the help. Jim __________________ 44 gal pentagon/Emporer 280/BioWheel 4x13W Compact Fluorescents/DIY Co2 LifE: hornwort,swords j. fern,wild celery,ambulia crypt wendtii,sagittaria,j. moss,anubias 5Platies6Shrimp7Lemons,8neons,8glolites,6otos

04-04-2003, 11:20 AM	#36 (permalink)
Rickster Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Poolesville,Maryland Posts: 149	I talked to my LFS owner. He's not just a fish store owner he actually has a masters degree in marine biology. Anyway he says that most if not all the neos and cardinals are wild caught. And while they go through some quarrantine(SP?) process it is very and I mean very minimal. So alot of times they come in with who knows what desease in them. Before he sell neons he keeps them for a week with a not for sale sign on the tank. This tank is his medicated holding tank just for neons. He says that even with his efforts he still loses about 25 to 30%. So if you really want neons, keep buying them until enough of them survive. __________________ Eheimpimp#137 90 gallon tank with water and some fish. Plants died and tank overrun with algae. Lights nearly burst into flames last weekend. Needs lots of help

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04-02-2003, 05:08 PM	#32 (permalink)
JimmyD Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 83	No deaths since I lowered the temp Rickster. The oxygen may have been it. Here's my new theory: Perhaps my DIY Co2 bottle was depleted, although it was still bubbling. The loss of Co2 caused the ph swing, and in conjunction with the high temp/lack of O2, it was too much for the tetras. Sound good? I have since started my double bottle DIY and have been checking ph morning and night. The ph was swinging from 7.2 - 7.6 between day and night. Since the bottles have been adding Co2, the ph has been steady at 7.2 (could even be 7.0 hard to tell sometimes) the last four times I have checked. Assuming that the high temp and ph swing caused by the possibly depleted co2 bottle were the cuplprits, I have to come up with a plan to prevent this from reoccurring. The temp is easy to fix. With the 2-bottle Co2 system, I am thinking of switching one bottle out every two weeks. Sound good? I am so ready to run to the LFS this weekend and buy a tankful of neons and lemons!! (Stubborn that way I guess.) Thanks again for the assistance everyone, and further advice/guidance would be great.

04-03-2003, 12:02 AM	#33 (permalink)
JimmyD Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 83	Argh. Lost another neon sometime today. PH has held around 7.0 night and day for three days. Temp has been fluctuating though. It's a submersible Hagen PreSet 300w. Have it set to 76, the tank was reading 78, now 80? Maybe need a new heater?

04-04-2003, 10:54 PM	#37 (permalink)
SNPiccolo5 Planted Tank Enthusiast (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 859	Yes, if you want neons, count on a 30-50% die off. Acclimating them very slowly does help (like very very slowly). -Tim

04-07-2003, 03:34 PM	#38 (permalink)
JimmyD Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 83	Thanks for the info. I'm hopefull things will settle down on their own. I have been saving the dead neons in a ziploc, the lfs only gaurantees for 48 hours, but..there are ways around that! I only wish that my lemons had survived, little guys were entertaining!

04-07-2003, 11:43 PM	#39 (permalink)
JimmyD Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 83	No deaths for 4 days. Almost picked up some replacement lemons today. I have read that the cardinals are caught and the neons are raised. Although, every website and book seems to say something different. Can anyone recommend a good reference book on freshwater aquarium fish? Also, since I'll be restocking soon, were my lemon tetras and platies too big for the neons?

04-08-2003, 01:55 AM	#40 (permalink)
JimmyD Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 83	Tonight I noticed that the smallest neon of the 5 that survived is being picked on by the other 4 neons. His fins are tattered and he hides. Could this be due to the school being too small?

04-11-2003, 02:38 PM	#41 (permalink)
JimmyD Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 83	not to be discouraged, i bought 5 lemons at the lfs last night, it was cool the way the two surviving lemons and the 5 new ones instantly schooled up.... I'm getting a little choked up thinking about it. I know I should wait, but the lfs had glowlights and I can never find them, so i think im going back to get a school today. They had some cool zebra red-finned loaches too...ever hear of them?

04-11-2003, 03:10 PM	#42 (permalink)
digger Planted Tank Enthusiast (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 519	Yeah, 82 seems like it could be a bit high. Tetras prefer 68-76 degree F water. Neon tetras would like a lower ph than what you have.

04-16-2003, 08:25 PM	#43 (permalink)
JimmyD Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 83	Ok, it is happening again. One of my lemons that survived the die-off is off by himself, kinda twitching, not eating, and I have noticed his tail is higher that his head. I have spotted Ich on my new glolights and discussed it in another thread. The white spots are gone from the glolights, and there is no sign of it on the sick lemon or any other fish. I ran across a good page on disease: http://madhunag.tripod.com/diseases.html They write about head down/tail up as a bacterial infection. I have added some salt to the tank, and plan to add more tonight to bring it up to 1 tblspoon for every 5 gallons. I am considering Maracide and maybe Melafix. I also thought about removing the sick lemon to save the rest of my fish, I have no other tanks. Any suggestions on how to proceed? Thanks, Jim

04-17-2003, 01:29 PM	#44 (permalink)
JimmyD Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 83	Was reading info from Mardel about ich: Note: Some fish do not develop spots on the skin. Heavy infections may be on the gills and show no evidence of disease on other parts of the body. Could I simply be dealing with Ich? I have seen evidence of Ich, but the sick lemon has no white spots. My water is great and only one lemon showing symptoms. Tried to net him for a salt dip last night.....yeah right! He wasn't exactly cooperating. ever seen how fast a lemon can really swim?

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