Noob fertilization questions

[gsxunv04]

what fertilizers do you use?

[bradac56]

For a small tank I would use Pfertz.com's NPK+M package but for anything larger than a 30gal I use dry ferts from ether

{ http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/aq...ertilizer.html }
{ http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/in...ditU=1&Regit=2 }

and get the basics:

KN03
KH2P04
Trace (CSM+B)

Optional but good stuff:
GH booster (only used after a large WC)
Iron Chelate 10% (if you need extra iron for finicky plants)

And then take a look at the EI dosing method.

- Brad

[Left C]

Osmocote® Plus Multi-Purpose Plant Food (15-9-12) will work too. There are several Osmocote products. Some only have NPK, but this one has NPK along with trace nutrients. You sprinkle a small amount on the bottom before you add the substrate on new setups.

Be sure to get the Plus 15-9-12 product. The products with only NPK can cause bad algae problems, but the 15-9-12 product works somewhat like some of the better root tabs. Be sure to keep it buried though.

OSMOCOTE PLUS MULTI-PURPOSE PLANT FOOD 15-9-12 (plus 9 other essential nutrients) is a slow release prilled product.
http://www.alliedbotanical.com/pdf/Osmocote15912.pdf

http://www.scotts.com/smg/products/o...sPlantFood.pdf

guaranteed analysis: http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/egov/is/fert/fert2.asp?ID=9633

[bradac56]

Hmm not a bad product. How much does that bottle run you?

I can do the same thing for pennies using sphagnum peat moss, potash, and iron chelate plus a few other things depending on what type of tank I'm setting up (all of those plus the non-fert top soil from a local orchard supply store). But if it's fairly cheap it might be something to recommend to people that's shy about DIY substrates.

- Brad

[Guns286]

Just to bring it back to the PMDD subject again, take a look at this link and tell me what the rest of you think. Because I am, in fact, a "Poor Man", I'm still wondering if this is the right route to go. Let me know what you guys think.

www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/pmdd-tim.html

[bradac56]

PMDD is an old system (your reference site was from 1997) and has been replaced with EI and PPS-Pro I would take a look at those as your going to get allot more help with them than with an outdated system.

Your still going to use nearly the same dry ferts so the price isn't better than EI or PPS-Pro.

- Brad

[JoelB]

Originally Posted by bradac56

PMDD is an old system (your reference site was from 1997) and has been replaced with EI and PPS-Pro I would take a look at those as your going to get allot more help with them than with an outdated system.

Please help me to understand, here. PMDD was trying to give the plants what they need, EI is giving them plenty and regulating through w/c and PPS-pro is the best compromise?? BUT, isn't it the same fert ratios with each? Just a matter of how much total you give?

[Left C]

Originally Posted by bradac56

Hmm not a bad product. How much does that bottle run you?

I can do the same thing for pennies using sphagnum peat moss, potash, and iron chelate plus a few other things depending on what type of tank I'm setting up (all of those plus the non-fert top soil from a local orchard supply store). But if it's fairly cheap it might be something to recommend to people that's shy about DIY substrates.

- Brad

The smallest size that I have seen is a 7.5 lbs jug for ~ $13. You sometimes have to hunt around for it. Many places carry several types of NPK only Osmocote, but only a few carry this product with macros and micros.
http://www.google.com/products?hl=en...-8&sa=N&tab=wf

I've used it under E-C along with a dusting of Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss on the bottom. It did a good job with pressurized CO2 and high light. I haven't tried it in low tech aquariums, but it should be OK. It takes years for the tiny prills to dissolve.

7.5 lbs of this stuff is probably enough for Amano's giant aquarium, but a $13 jug's price isn't much different than a pack of Seachem's or Tropica's root tabs.

[Left C]

Originally Posted by JoelB

Please help me to understand, here. PMDD was trying to give the plants what they need, EI is giving them plenty and regulating through w/c and PPS-pro is the best compromise?? BUT, isn't it the same fert ratios with each? Just a matter of how much total you give?

PMDD doesn't have any KH2PO4 in it. EI and PPS do.

PMDD has the trace (CSM+B) mixed in, but EI and PPS is either a separate dry mix or solution.

[Amazonfish]

I've enjoyed reading all these helpful posts, but I have one more question. It may be a stupid one. When you first set up a planted tank, do you dose ferts from day one? Also, with a low light tank, do ferts make a difference?

[Guns286]

Ok. I just found a really good write up about PPS-Pro. It's very understandable to a non-chemist like me.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...e-pps-pro.html

[plantbrain]

Originally Posted by Guns286

Ok. I just found a really good write up about PPS-Pro. It's very understandable to a non-chemist like me.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...e-pps-pro.html

What is easier than dosing 3-4 things and doing water changes?

I modified PMDD and still suggested testing for some years, but tossed out the entire testing issue because few folks would ever test their tanks correctly

Maybe a few might.
Most wing it.

Few even know how to to do a 2-3 point calibration curve.

If you are not going to test, then you may as well use a water change. That's the trade off.

If you plan on relying on test measurements data, then you must calibrate the test kits and make sure the data is accurate, otherwise it's just a guess........which gets you right back to EI.

There's no in between about it.
1. You either guess and not test and hope.
2. Do water changes and estimate.
3. Test and dose according to a ppm range

If you use sediment based ferts, then there's is less reliance on the water column. Still, adding a lot to the water column poses no issues, I've been doing it in conjunction with ADA AS for several years.



If you use less light, or go non CO2, then you can no dose at all for logn time frames and never do a water change either.



1 year without a water change.

No testing either.

Really depends on your own goal, no single method will meet everyone's goal.

Water's cheap, easy to do and folks already know how to do a water change, asking them to test IME which is decades on the web now...has been really sour.

They just do not do it and often lie and claim they have.
This is less of a method's issue as it is a people issue

Regards,
Tom Barr

[MoorishIdol]

another quick noob question about the dry fertz,

can I take all the dry fertz (NPK and trace) and mix them in a solution and just dose from that one solution?

or are there ones that shouldn't be mixed beforehand?

i have a nano at work and want to keep things as simple as i can

[bradac56]

If you mix it with distilled water then no you can't mix the NPK with the trace they have to be separate but I would recommend just dumping them in dry and you could pre-mix all of them together in small containers and then take them to work.

- Brad