_Dosing Regime's_

[critter333294]

Would plantex csm be interchangeable with regular Flourish? I'm thinking of ordering some from big al's since its on sale, but if it's not going to do the same thing, I wont bother.

[Wö£fëñxXx]

Originally Posted by Waste

Great post

Just one question....

When talking about traces, 5ml every other day pr. 20g seems to be the rule. Tom uses TMG and says this amount is enough for a high light tank and EI...

But TMG has so little iron... 0.07%. To reach the target of 0.2ppm - 0.5ppm, the uptake must be 0 so that iron can build up...

Am I doing the math backwards here?

If you feel you need more iron add more trace if Fe is unavailable to you, either way you will be set.

Originally Posted by critter333294

Would plantex csm be interchangeable with regular Flourish? I'm thinking of ordering some from big al's since its on sale, but if it's not going to do the same thing, I wont bother.

Flourish Comprehensive will do the same thing, not Flourish Trace, those two are different products.
I have used all the trace elements on the market and have found none to be any better than the other, so for me CSM+B wins because it is so much cheaper.

[workshopper]

Hey.

I have read a lot of articles about EI but still I have some questions.
Certainly they are dumb but if I can't understand then I might ruin my tank.

1)How much is one teaspoonful? Can anyone show me a picture?

2) I want to dose like shown on THIS website.


20-40 Gallons (76-152 litres)

20ml solution or 1/4 tsp KNO3 3x a week
12ml solution or 1/16 tsp KH2PO4 3x a week
5ml solution or 1/16 tsp K2SO4 3x a week
5ml or 1/16 tsp traces 3x a week

I start using this chart/table to dose and I would like to know that if I must add 20 ml solution of KNO3 3x week or do I have to divide it like 20/3 and then dose about 7 ml 3x week.?

Thanks.

PS! Sorry about grammar.

[Wö£fëñxXx]

Hello.

Teaspoon
: a unit of measure equal to 1/6 fluid ounce or 1/3 tablespoon or 5 milliliters.

If you choose to dose in ml then 20ml 3x a week, no division needed, so that would be 60ml total within that week.
The same for KH2P04- 12ml 3x a week so thats 36ml within that week etc.

If dosing by the Tsp then 3/4 Tsp within that week so on and so forth.

I don't know if this will be of help but worth posting I suppose:
http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert...aspoon.en.html

If you have any more questions feel free to ask.

Picture:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teaspoon

Your dosing does not have to be completely exact.

You're grammar is fine.

[workshopper]

Oh well, thanks for the answer.
It really helped me a lot.

I'll gonna make solutions and start dosing.

Bye bye.

[walluby]

Hi yah!

I know Rex is going to hate me for this, but here it goes!

How can I get make a recipe for 3/ 32 oz. bottles, almost a litre,
when I have 3/4 of a tsp. of KN03
3/16 of a tsp. of KH2P04 every other day
1/4 of a tsp. of K2S04
and then 1/4 of a tsp. of Trace alternating days

I tell ya, I'v read all these pages, looked elsewhere, including
Greg Watson's pages, listened to all the people that have
stated that they are still confused, read the same thing over
regarding the dry dosage p/day, " ahh ", no brainer; and I haven't
seen, - - - correct me if I am wrong, or even long winded, has anybody come up with such a recipe for a litre (32oz.) bottle!

I have tried to do the math, to no avail, looked at all the conversion
charts for grams, millilitres, tsps, tblsps., cups, quarts, and even
litres! I am not an idiot! And I know this should not be that much work!
But I am asking for a little help! I know the answer is probably quite
simple, and I am sure it's going to kick me in the head!

What I don't understand is if 3/4 of a tsp. is mixed with water, what
is the measurement of that amount of water used. If one knows this,
then one can measure the amount for a litre bottle. I was trying to
figure out if you add 1 tblsp. of Plantex for 500 mls., do you do the same for the other ferts. If one is 3/4's, and one is 3/16', and the other is 1/4,
then why would you take out a tblsp? That doesn't add up correctly given
the weekly dose.

O.K. I'll stop!

Can one of you guys help with this?
I admire and appreciate all that WolfenxXx has contributed to this thread,
I think everyone will agree that he/she has been very informative!

[plantbrain]

Just a note:

If you folks are fretting over smaller teaspoon volumes etc, are more inclined to dose daily vs 2-3x a week, then I'd suggest going to liquid solutions.

To make them, take that dry dosing amoutn for 2=4 weeks, add it to a 1/2 liter of water, then divide by 15 or 30 days to get the daily dose, or 6-12 X for the 3x a week routine.

500mls in 1/2 liter divided by the days (say 30) = 16.6 mls per day.
You can vary the solution strenth however you wish.

Really up to you.
Also, you might look at the older APD post for other methods of dosing etc.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Kayakbabe]

I see a lot of posts about confusion over how to figure teeny amounts of dry fert when you can't measure them. And, I see a lot of posts that give a lot of measurements and different volumes and a lot of scientific measures.

But this problem can be addressed really simply for those that get confused by lots of numbers and fractions and percentage.

Let's break this down to something as simple as possible.

The problem: You want to dose a 1/4 teaspoon of something but don't know how to measure it and only have a 1 teaspoon measure.

Okay, now look at your aquarium, is it big or little? This will make sense as you read on.

Get a bottle like a single serving coke bottle maybe, it could be a smaller bottle or a bigger one. It doesn't really matter, but if you've got a pico sized tank, a small bottle is might be better. **

Okay, grab your trusty teaspoon measure and measure out 1 teaspoon of your 'something' and put it into your bottle.

Now, get water out of your aquarium (with something other than your powder filled bottle) and fill up your powdered filled bottle.*

Shake till dissolved.

Now, you've got something dissolved in some water. But you only want to put 1/4 teaspoon of something into your tank. Remember we put 1 teaspoon into the bottle and mixed it up. So.. if I take out 1/4 of the whole mess in the bottle, the mixed in 'something' will be taken out with it.

so.. pour 1/4 of the bottle contents into your tank. (that's one dose).

Wa-la! You are done. You just put 1/4 teaspoon of something into your tank!

And, you have 3 more doses left in your trusty bottle. Shake it up first before you use it next time.

Note: This works for other measurements...
if you want 1/3 of a teaspoon, then divide full your bottle up into 3 doses.
If you want 1/2 teaspoon, then your full bottle holds 2 doses.

If you get really creative, you could get one of those rubber maid clear plastic jugs, that have numbers on the side. I've got a 1 quart jug that has 32 divisions on it... so... you can see if you want 1/32 of a teaspoon, you just put your 1 teaspoon of 'something' into the jug, top it off with water, shake, and pour out 1 division mark on the jug.

The confusion in the other posts I've read comes about because people are trying to explain how to make more concentrated solutions. That works really well, it just sounds complicated. It's actually doing the same thing I outlined above, but with different proportions and fractions. -- okay I"m getting complicated again, so I'll stop.

I hope this post helped clarify, what all those dry fertilizer solution dilutions and calculations were doing.







*You could use R/O, distilled or treated tap water instead of tank water.. but tank water is an already treated source that is safe for your tank.

** Too small a bottle won't hold enough water to dissolve your 'something'. If you run into this problem... just get a bigger bottle, pour the whole mess into the bigger bottle. You can add some water to the small bottle and slosh it around and keep putting it into the big bottle, until your small bottle is clean. Then top off your big bottle and proceed.

[kvntran]

Woefenxxx,

Excellent post!

There's some thing I need to confirm before starting my doses.

According to Chuck Gadd's calculator, the recommend level for potassium is 20ppm, and after I worked out all the numbers for my 30 gal tank, I got quite different doses from the examples given here.

1/4 tsp KNO3 gives me 7.53ppm Nitrate + 4.75ppm of potassium.

1/2 tsp K2S04 gives me 11.82ppm of Potassium

based on the 2 compounds above I should get 16.57ppm of K which is a bit less than 20ppm level but acceptable.

However, I notice that my K2SO4 is twice as much as KNO3 while all of your dosing samples here show that K2S04 is just a fraction of KNO3!

Am I doing something wrong?
Please help.

Regards,
Kevin

[imeridian]

You're just dosing extra K. ...which is perfectly fine.

Also, don't forget to include K from KH2PO4.

The K provided by the K2SO4 in the recommendations is a very small quantity (about 2ppm last I checked) and presumes that the bulk of the K comes from the KNO3 & KH2PO4. These dosing recommendations are not necessarily in line with the recommendations that Chuck Gadd provides, as it comes out to being about 10ppm K per combined macro dose in general (again per memory of last time I calculated these doses).

One can also dose Equilibrium instead of the K2SO4 weekly at water change, that'll provide some extra Mg, Ca, Fe, Mn, and of course K. I toss in an extra 1tsp of K2SO4 (~10ppm) in addition to the 1tsp of Equilibrium when I do my water changes for my 75 gallon. Some EI dosing plans use the Equilibrium and some use the 3X weekly K2SO4, there really isn't anything wrong with doing both either.

Personally I wouldn't really bother with the 3X weekly K as listed here, the dose is too small to be worth the trouble -- just take care of it weekly. K2SO4 for solutions has a very annoying solubility limit too. That's just my personal opinion though. My extra K dosing was a bit of an unscientific experiment, inspired by my soft water and having done the math you're doing.

[kvntran]

Originally Posted by indiboi

You're just dosing extra K. ...which is perfectly fine.

Also, don't forget to include K from KH2PO4.

The K provided by the K2SO4 in the recommendations is a very small quantity (about 2ppm last I checked) and presumes that the bulk of the K comes from the KNO3 & KH2PO4. These dosing recommendations are not necessarily in line with the recommendations that Chuck Gadd provides, as it comes out to being about 10ppm K per combined macro dose in general (again per memory of last time I calculated these doses).

One can also dose Equilibrium instead of the K2SO4 weekly at water change, that'll provide some extra Mg, Ca, Fe, Mn, and of course K. I toss in an extra 1tsp of K2SO4 (~10ppm) in addition to the 1tsp of Equilibrium when I do my water changes for my 75 gallon. Some EI dosing plans use the Equilibrium and some use the 3X weekly K2SO4, there really isn't anything wrong with doing both either.

Personally I wouldn't really bother with the 3X weekly K as listed here, the dose is too small to be worth the trouble -- just take care of it weekly. K2SO4 for solutions has a very annoying solubility limit too. That's just my personal opinion though. My extra K dosing was a bit of an unscientific experiment, inspired by my soft water and having done the math you're doing.

Thank you!
Yes, I know there's some K in KH2PO4 too, but it's too little because I only need 1/16 tsp of P.
I use Grumpy's GH booster to raise GH, and I'm not sure if it has extra K.
If too much K isn't a problem, I would just dump a bit extra K at water change like you do and forget about it for a week
And if 10ppm of K from other compounds is enough then why bother to add K2SO4 at all?
Let's hope the OP will explain why he target K the way he does.

Kevin

[imeridian]

It's my understanding that the level at which there'd be too much K is quite high enough as to be almost impossible to get there without it being intentional.

Grumpy's GH does have the K in it, though I vaguely recall Rex saying it isn't quite the same proportions as Equilibrium, but as far as I know they're interchangeable.

The why bother was sort of my reaction to the very low dose here, and my inclination was to not bother at all with the K2SO4, at least it was for quite a very long time. I add the Equilibrium anyway for GH. My additions of extra K are only in the last couple of months, I don't think it makes all that much difference, but as I mentioned my 'testing' isn't exactly scientific and would only really apply to my tank anyway.

[kvntran]

Originally Posted by indiboi

It's my understanding that the level at which there'd be too much K is quite high enough as to be almost impossible to get there without it being intentional.

Grumpy's GH does have the K in it, though I vaguely recall Rex saying it isn't quite the same proportions as Equilibrium, but as far as I know they're interchangeable.

The why bother was sort of my reaction to the very low dose here, and my inclination was to not bother at all with the K2SO4, at least it was for quite a very long time. I add the Equilibrium anyway for GH. My additions of extra K are only in the last couple of months, I don't think it makes all that much difference, but as I mentioned my 'testing' isn't exactly scientific and would only really apply to my tank anyway.

So during the time that you omitted K2SO4, do you see any sign of deficiency?
It seems that you know a lot about Seachem stuff, I happen to have a complete line of their products, the 2 liter bottles, I have been dosing according to Seachem recommendation but I still get clado. Do you happen to know the ratio between dry fert and seachem liquid? say, 20ppm of KNO3 = ?? ml of Seachem Nitrogen? and for other such as Seachem Phosphorus and Seachem Nitrogen?
Thanks.

Kevin

[imeridian]

I've never seen anything I'd classify as a K deficiency. I don't know the conversions for the Seachem ferts. There's a thread/sticky either here somewhere or over at APC that I think gives instructions on how to make them from dry ingredients. The Fertilator at APC also has the Seachem stuff so you can calculate ppm based on tank size like when using Chuck Gadd's calculator.

[kvntran]

Thanks indiboi,

The fertilator is great, exactly what I'm looking for. It seems that EI dosing is around 7 times stronger than what Seachem suggested!
I will post my algae fighting result here.

Kevin