_Dosing Regime's_

[mrkookm]

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[frisbeedog]

Several questions ... This thread took 2 days to read...

Im assuming when you do the water change, you bring the nitrates back up to about 20ppm. On day 6 of the cycle, right before the next water change, are the nitrates still 20ppm ? Is the theory to dose what the plants are burning off or to raise the nitrates up to a point where you need a water change to bring them back down? Reason Im asking is my tank isnt burning through the nitrates fast enough to warrant dosing nitrates 3x a week, I cant imaging my 100gal burning nearly 2tsp of NO3 a week. If I were to follow the prescription then I would need a WC because my nitrates would be way high. If the object is to keep level, I can adjust my dosages accordingly, and then pray for the day when I have enough plants to burn through that much gunpowder.

2nd .. I recently fell in love with Aponogeton bulbs cause they dont grow fugly roots from their stems, they're fast growers, and they dont shoot runners all over tarnation. I planted about 15 of them this weekend. Are these the types of plants to look for to burn up the nitrates and reduce the poliferation of Algae ? If anyone can recommend a Algae busting plant thread that'd be swell.

3rd ..

If the object of the game is to keep things in balance, why so many water changes ? We're dumping all these ferts out, then adding them right back in. What specific wastes is the water change removing ? Amonia? Nitrites? algae spores ? gerbils ?

[Wö£fëñxXx]

Hey discdog

Im assuming when you do the water change, you bring the nitrates back up to about 20ppm. On day 6 of the cycle, right before the next water change, are the nitrates still 20ppm ? Is the theory to dose what the plants are burning off or to raise the nitrates up to a point where you need a water change to bring them back down? Reason Im asking is my tank isnt burning through the nitrates fast enough to warrant dosing nitrates 3x a week,

The object is to provide everything that the plants need in order to sustain healthy vibrant growth. N-P-K-TE-C02 (all this depending on the amount of light used) the more light burned the more nutrient the plants can consume up to a certain point.
On day 6 if the N03 is still 20ppm is hard to say, there are variables involved that determine what is going to be what at any given point in the cycle.
If your plants aren't using as much salt as you may assume they are will also determine how much light is being used and how well C02 is being utilized, plant mass, fish/food/waste etc.

This sticky is just a guide for dosing not the rule, the rule is plants need food N-P-K-TE-Carbon, the amount of light will determine how much of these they need.

I cant imaging my 100gal burning nearly 2tsp of NO3 a week. If I were to follow the prescription then I would need a WC because my nitrates would be way high. If the object is to keep level, I can adjust my dosages accordingly, and then pray for the day when I have enough plants to burn through that much gunpowder.

Once again several variables involved with this, the amount of light, the amount of fish/waste/food, the amount of plant mass and type of plants being grown etc. all play a role.
If the light over the tank is say around 2wpg/ish then dosing twice a week will be fine, maybe even a little less it depends. Light is the driving force of the tank/plants.
You do not have to keep N03 @ 20ppm and P04 @ 2ppm the goal is to provide enough nutrients for the plants to sustain good growth without being short changed at any point in the cycle, it does not matter how much you dose as long as it is enough.

2nd .. I recently fell in love with Aponogeton bulbs cause they dont grow fugly roots from their stems, they're fast growers, and they dont shoot runners all over tarnation. I planted about 15 of them this weekend. Are these the types of plants to look for to burn up the nitrates and reduce the poliferation of Algae ? If anyone can recommend a Algae busting plant thread that'd be swell.

Apons are not very nutrient demanding unless you start torching them with mass lumens, they will actually grow quiet well in dimly lit tanks, to start a tank with 2+wpg of lighting you will really want to pack the tank with as many fast growing plants as possible, it is less headache than trying to maintain a tank with lots of light, nutrient and only a few plants.
Bottom line,to much light is usually the cause for peoples algae woes.

3rd ..

If the object of the game is to keep things in balance, why so many water changes ? We're dumping all these ferts out, then adding them right back in. What specific wastes is the water change removing ? Amonia? Nitrites? algae spores ? gerbils ?

The condition of an aquarium depends very much on the performance of its biological filter. When the filter's micro-organisms are thriving, the water will be crystal clear and there is no algae growth.

The chemical reaction that expresses the oxidation process carried out by the nitrobacteria which converts harmful ammonia into harmless nitrate is NH3; NO2; NO3. The bacteria that converts ammonia (NH3) into nitrite (NO2) is called Nitrosomonas, and the bacteria that converts that into nitrate (NO3) is called Nitrobactor. Research shown that the remaining nitrate is about 70 times less toxic than nitrite, but if enough accumulates in the water it can still be harmful. Therefore, it is always necessary to frequently change the aquarium water even when using a top-of-the-line filter.

So we need good filters and media, lots of oxygen or surface agitation, but not to the degree that we degrade our level of C02 content....which will be evident by algae growth, fish gasping and or poor plant health based on the amount of light over the tank, and keeping the tank clean and free from excess organics, dead floating, rotting plant matter, and frequent water changes.
With high light C02 enriched tanks comes more work/maintenance, for less work, use less light.

I hope this helps with some of your questions, but probably strikes more.

If you have gerbils in the tank, you may want to invest in a/some catfish.

[stagius]

I have a quick question about dosing potassium, K.

Someone suggest a level of K at 15-20 ppm. According to your regime, dosing 1/16 tsp K2SO4 in the first day only bring the level of K to 1.7 ppm ( for a 25 gallons tank). I wonder is it enough to provide macro nutrient for plants ?

Am i right to say that, in most case, the amount of K in tap water is nearly zero ? And feeding fish does not provide any K source ?

[Wö£fëñxXx]

In calculating the K, don't forget to add in the K for (K)N03 and (K)H2P04.
In most cases the K from KN03 and KH2P04 is enough, adding more don't hurt, I only suggest adding K2S04 when burning a lot of light.

[stagius]

How do you know the amount of K in KHPO4 ? In med light ( 2.4 WPG), what is your level of K suggesting ?

[Erk]

Excellent posts Wö£fëñxXx! Its very well written, and should help plenty of people! I have some issues with long green hair algae and recently put A LOT more bio filtration in my cannister....Im hoping it will start to improve things a bit for me soon

Nice work

[Wö£fëñxXx]

Originally Posted by stagius

How do you know the amount of K in KHPO4 ? In med light ( 2.4 WPG), what is your level of K suggesting ?

KH2P04...
Knowing the amount is dependent on the ratio, ask your source/supplier if they have a percentage of the ingredients.
The level of K I suggest is simply to make sure that you have some of all the nutrients in the water throughout the weekly cycle including a good amount of Carbon.
The main thing to keep in mind is not to burn to much light, a lot of folks have had trouble with that one issue, plants do not need as much light as most think.
A lot of these newer light fixtures these days are built for reef tanks, fresh water plants simply do not need that much light.
If one is keeping up with regular maintenance, has good flow, feeding the plants consistently and having algae issues, then you are burning to much light for either to long or to strong.


Thanks Erk, don't over burn the lights, feed the plants, maintain good flow throughout the tank and pay attention to the plants and you should be good to go, it really is a matter is being able to see the differnce between a healthy plant and an unhealthy one.

[mrkookm]

..............

[Erk]

Thanks Erk, don't over burn the lights, feed the plants, maintain good flow throughout the tank and pay attention to the plants and you should be good to go, it really is a matter is being able to see the differnce between a healthy plant and an unhealthy one.

Thanks, Im slowly getting the hang of figuring out a healthy plant from an unhealthy one....finally! haha....but the main "jist" here is lower the light if your having problems! haha

Thanks again!

[Destinee]

Tank's (2)
40~60gal
50%H20 change-weekly
+/-1/2Tsp-KN03 3x a week
+/-1/8Tsp-KH2P04 3x a week
+/-1/8Tsp-K2S04 3x a week
+/-10ml or 1/8Tsp-Trace 3x a week
+/-2-4ml-Fe/Iron 3x a week

can someone PLEASE break this down so I can understand it, I dont have a clue what products to get to add this stuff, I just dont understand it. LOL. I know I sound like a idiot, but I am new to this stuff and everything I read about dosing confuses me.

[dekstr]

Originally Posted by Destinee

Tank's (2)
40~60gal
50%H20 change-weekly
+/-1/2Tsp-KN03 3x a week
+/-1/8Tsp-KH2P04 3x a week
+/-1/8Tsp-K2S04 3x a week
+/-10ml or 1/8Tsp-Trace 3x a week
+/-2-4ml-Fe/Iron 3x a week

can someone PLEASE break this down so I can understand it, I dont have a clue what products to get to add this stuff, I just dont understand it. LOL. I know I sound like a idiot, but I am new to this stuff and everything I read about dosing confuses me.

Sure.

40~60 gallon = this dosing regime is for 40 to 60 gallon tank size

50%H20 change weekly = h2o is just water, , so a 50% water change once a week

+/- means plus or minus, "give or take". It doesn't have to be exact, since estimative index is an approximation anyway.

tsp = teaspoon

mL = millilitres

KNO3 is the chemical name for potassium nitrate
KH2PO4 is the chemical name for monopotassium phosphate
K2SO4 is the chemical name for potassium sulphate
trace means the "trace elements" or micronutrients that plants need in very small amounts, but nevertheless needed

Fe/Iron, Fe is the same thing as iron, just the chemical term for it. (see any element chart)

3x a week means you does that particular +/- amount three times over a period of a week.

[tazcrash69]

Just to add to dekstr's breakdown, those are for bulk dry ferts (cheapest way to dose). You can get them here.
trace is sold as CSM or CSM+B.

Just try not to dose your Macros (first 3 ferts) at the same time with your micros.

Good supplemental reading here for dosing, why and how.

Just remember that is a guildline, it should be modified to your tank's need.

HTH

[Destinee]

Originally Posted by dekstr

Sure.

40~60 gallon = this dosing regime is for 40 to 60 gallon tank size

50%H20 change weekly = h2o is just water, , so a 50% water change once a week

+/- means plus or minus, "give or take". It doesn't have to be exact, since estimative index is an approximation anyway.

tsp = teaspoon

mL = millilitres

KNO3 is the chemical name for potassium nitrate
KH2PO4 is the chemical name for monopotassium phosphate
K2SO4 is the chemical name for potassium sulphate
trace means the "trace elements" or micronutrients that plants need in very small amounts, but nevertheless needed

Fe/Iron, Fe is the same thing as iron, just the chemical term for it. (see any element chart)

3x a week means you does that particular +/- amount three times over a period of a week.

THANK YOU! One other question, what products do I need to buy in order to add all of this stuff to my tank ???? I have florish excel, but is that enough?

[Waste]

Great post

Just one question....

When talking about traces, 5ml every other day pr. 20g seems to be the rule. Tom uses TMG and says this amount is enough for a high light tank and EI...

But TMG has so little iron... 0.07%. To reach the target of 0.2ppm - 0.5ppm, the uptake must be 0 so that iron can build up...

Am I doing the math backwards here?