DIY CO2 - Yeast Question

[james0816]

I've been using regular Fleishman's yeast since I've started the DIY. Been reading about using brewers yeast to get even more life out of my setup.
So....I stopped a store that sells home brewing stuffs and picked up three different packages. Wondering if anyone has any experience with either of them?

They are:
Muntons
Coopers Brewery
Nottingham

Tx,
James

[DevinWolfe]

I have always used Fleishman's because it was the only kind Kroger had when I decided to do CO2. I have great results with Fleishman's, but if you're looking to try something else the only thing I have read is to be certain to avoid "fast acting" and "ultra fast rising."

Let us know if the others do any better than Fleishman's and I may consider trying one myself. My 10G will always be DIY.

[hbosman]

I remember reading that yeast used for champayne will last the longest, will withstand hignest alcohol content. I used Fleishmann's and Redstar. Fleishmanns was better IMHO.

[james0816]

I was looking for Champaign yeast but they only carried brew yeast.

[oldpunk78]

^check ebay

[Wicket_lfe]

Agreed, I get Fleishmans to last about 2 weeks, havent honestly tried anything else. I also read that Champagne yeast can last even longer. It can come in viles in a liquid state. Also keeping unused yeast in the fridge or freezer will keep the yeast "fresh" longer.

Do you guys reuse your "sludge"? One article I read, the guy poured off the liquid, and just replaced it with more sugar water, since the stuff on the bottom was the yeast. So his 1 oz of champagne yeast lasted like a year.

[airborne_r6]

When I was doing DIY CO2 I reused the "sludge". I just carefully poured off the liquid, added more water, then the sugar, molasses, protein mix and baking soda, then swirled to mix then topped off the water.

[tanh3]

I have DIY CO2 as well. using a juice bottle with a super glue tube on the top of the bottle. attached at the end is an air stone.
Using Hodgson Mill active dry yeast. I put in 8.75g with 3/4 cup sugar and warm water and mixed it all up and put it in the 32fl oz bottle.
After the yeast activating and foaming up, A large shot of CO2 shot some of yeast mixture into the tank. I would say its not a significant amount. Anyone have that happened to them before and what were the consequences?

[Lnb]

This is where I bought my Champagne yeast. Yes, I did say champagne.

http://www.thegrape.net/browse.cfm/2,1223.html

[Wicket_lfe]

Originally Posted by airborne_r6

When I was doing DIY CO2 I reused the "sludge". I just carefully poured off the liquid, added more water, then the sugar, molasses, protein mix and baking soda, then swirled to mix then topped off the water.

How long does this mix usually last? I only add sugar and it goes for about 2 weeks. Every so often when I make pasta, I save that water, add more sugar, and use that. I think that lasted a while. I tried adding cooked rice, dont recall those results. lol. Sometimes I add Grape Jelly just so it smells nicer when I dump it out.

[tug]

After hearing someone mention that they use fish tank water I tried it and find it works very well. Who knew yeast would like nitrate? Not me, until I read up on it. I only use 12 oz of water for my setup with baking soda, sugar and a small amount of spirulina. I can average a bubble every 2 to 4 seconds for about a week this way. When the bubble count starts to slow down after a week I some times feed the yeast a little sugar and spirulina slurry and get another couple of days out of the stuff. I also unhook the yeast bottle from the tubing at night to let the yeast breath. It can't hurt. How much yeast to use is also important. Too much and I get a fast/high bubble count that burns out quickly. My only concern about switching to Champaign yeast is it's availability locally is limited. Still it might be worth the postage. Using the fish tank water (adjust the pH with backing soda) certainly was.

As for adding any CO2 (especially DIY) it's the diffusion method for dispersing CO2 that's important. Mixing a bottle of water with yeast takes about five minutes. Keeping the fish from gasping for air with an efficient dispersion method is what takes up the most time and thought.

Originally Posted by tanh3

CO2 shot some of yeast mixture into the tank.

Probably not a problem for the fish, but you might want to make sure that the air line from the DIY isn't running directly to the tank. An air space like an empty bubble counter works well for this. It stops the yeast from traveling up the line and into the diffuser. Once that stuff gets in the tubing it's hard to get it out and you might need to replace the line.

[niptek]

Originally Posted by Wicket_lfe

Agreed, I get Fleishmans to last about 2 weeks, havent honestly tried anything else. I also read that Champagne yeast can last even longer. It can come in viles in a liquid state. Also keeping unused yeast in the fridge or freezer will keep the yeast "fresh" longer.

Do you guys reuse your "sludge"? One article I read, the guy poured off the liquid, and just replaced it with more sugar water, since the stuff on the bottom was the yeast. So his 1 oz of champagne yeast lasted like a year.

where is this article u read?

[james0816]

I got away from the standard sugar/water method just due to the fact of the two week period. I switched over to using jell-o and at times can go over a month before recharging the bottle.

Never thought about the "sludge" before. Maybe have to try that on my next recharge.

Back on the yeast thing...here's one interesting observation I made with the brewers yeast so far. When activating it in warm water, I found that (of course) it all goes to the bottom of the glass. Then there will be mini "eruptions" of the yeast at the bottom. It's rather cool to watch.

[Left C]

Originally Posted by airborne_r6

When I was doing DIY CO2 I reused the "sludge". I just carefully poured off the liquid, added more water, then the sugar, molasses, protein mix and baking soda, then swirled to mix then topped off the water.

Originally Posted by Wicket_lfe

Agreed, I get Fleishmans to last about 2 weeks, havent honestly tried anything else. I also read that Champagne yeast can last even longer. It can come in viles in a liquid state. Also keeping unused yeast in the fridge or freezer will keep the yeast "fresh" longer.

Do you guys reuse your "sludge"? One article I read, the guy poured off the liquid, and just replaced it with more sugar water, since the stuff on the bottom was the yeast. So his 1 oz of champagne yeast lasted like a year.

Originally Posted by niptek

where is this article u read?

From: http://www.rexgrigg.com/co2.htm
D.I.Y. Yeast Based CO2

Here are some hints if you are going to go with a DIY yeast based CO2 system.

* Use juice bottles and not soda bottles. Bigger caps, larger openings, more stable.
* Drill a hole in the cap smaller than the OD of the tubing. Cut the tubing at an angle. Pull it though with pliers. Done. The seal is gas tight.
* Get a Hagen bubble counter/diffuser. Just that part. You don't need/want the rest. Use their tubing. It works fine.
* Use plain old white sugar. I prefer to use wine yeast because it works at the lower winter temperatures I keep the house and it has a much higher alcohol tolerance than bread yeast. And $1 will buy a year's supply. Also when recharging the bottles I pour off the liquid and use the bottle sludge for the next bottle. That's the yeast.





Have you seen Tara Nyberg's PowerPoint presentation about yeast for aquarium use?

From: http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9061
If you have Powerpoint, you can view the whole presentation. If you don't, it is below this. Here is the PDF only.

What are the major expenses?
Tank and stand
Light
Substrate
CO2
Fertilizers

How to live on the cheap.
Tanks and Stand -- buy used and pay no more than $1-2 per gallon. Re-paint stand as needed. Hammer in a few boards to make it more sturdy/look better

Lights -- use 48” electronic T8 fixtures that you can get at the hard ware store for ~$20

How to live on the cheap- substrate
Substrate -- buy plain gravel or sand (also from hard ware store esp. if you can get the no-salt sand for icy roads)
Supplement in moderation with things like peat/soil (~1cup/ square foot) ironite (~1 T/square foot),
I like to make clay balls with added nutrients and add them both before and after a tank is planted. I recently set up a tank with nothing but clay balls. And plain gravel

How to live on the cheap --CO2
I have used yeast CO2 on tanks up to 180 gal. Also 75s, 65s etc.
2 gallons of yeast changed once every 3wks to month depending on the temperature works well. I don’t rotate the bottles either.
The key to long lasting cultures is allowing them to grow and be happy. Also a little basic knowledge of yeast growth helps.

Yeast Growth/metabolism
Yeast can either produce energy by fermentation or oxidative phosphorylation (ox/phos)
Yeast greatly prefer fermentation over ox/phos and will not start ox/phos until all the sugars are converted to ethanol.
Ethanol is a good source of energy and in the presence of oxygen yeast use it up as well.
Fermentation also produces 2 CO2 molecules per molecule of sugar-- as a by product. =)

Why is just sugar and water not ideal?
When you just add sugar and water to yeast, they are essentially starving to death.
However the enzymes for converting sugar to ethanol are still in the cell and will work for a limited amount of time.
Since the cells do not have what they need to make new enzymes as cells starve/run out of enzymes the culture produces less and less CO2.

Also, we add too much sugar.
Ethanol and sugar are increasingly toxic to yeast at greater than 10% concentrations.
Therefore 2cups (~500ml) of sugar in 2L of water (~25% sugar) is unhealthy for the yeast.
It is also a waste of sugar because 10% sugar will yield roughly 10% Ethanol at which point the yeast stop growing anyway.
Special strains of yeast, like champaine and wine yeast, have stronger cell walls that protect them from the Ethanol -- so they grow longer.

Happy yeast give you long, productive cultures.
The solution is to give yeast less sugar and also supply them with the nutrients they need to grow.
This will give you a long lived culture that produces a consistent amount of CO2, (they are not challenged by toxic conditions at the beginning and end)
Also your yeast mass at the end will be alive and well and able to quickly start growing again when you add more sugar.

The Recipe!
Improvise at will, but here is a good start:
Use 1 cup sugar per 2L H20 (tank water is great or dechlorinated tap -- chlorine, but not ammonia, kill yeast. ) (they like ammonia)
Add 1-2 tsp of a protein drink mix
(optional) Add 1 tsp of ammonium sulfate, otherwise use 1 T mollasses. (or both)
1 tsp baking soda is also nice to keep the pH from crashing (they like it >pH3-4)
Leave yeast from previous mix in the bottom.

Benefits/conclusons
Growing yeast this way saves you time (less re-starting) and money on sugar and yeast.
The only real extra cost is the protein mix, but you can use really old/cheap stuff.
The key thing is that it has protein and vitamin/minerals, Anything that has “yeast extract” in it is perfect.
(Even non-fat powdered milk will do the trick, but it will smell funny)

[dempsec1]

I just started 2 DIY 2L bottles a little over a month ago and with both combined, I am still getting 1-2 bps. 4 cups of sugar disolved in water first, and a little less the a 1/2 tsp of active dry yeast. Fill the bottles 4" from the top with water and make sure everything is sealed up. This was my first attempt and it's still going. I do give them a little swirl every week or so... I might just have strong yeast, I guess.