New Sump for 100gl. Discus Tank.

[rbarn]

Starting in earnest on my Discus tank project now.

This is the sump I have designed from lessons learned in recent
60 gallon project.

4 consecutive chambers of mechanical filtration.
10+gal. of bio-media storage area.
extreme low agitation design to keep Co2 from off gassing.
Sealed top

Will incorporate other external features as well.
Watch for updates and build pics.

Get a better animation up soon too.

24" x 24" x 18" / 40+gallons

[Hoppy]

I assume this will sit under the aquarium, in the cabinet, hidden from view? Are you doing this primarily to keep equipment out of the aquarium, or for the massive filtration media it will hold? I'm asking only because I have been trying to understand the attraction of sumps vs canister filters. But, 40 gallons of sump for a 100 gallon aquarium?? Isn't that considerably more than is conventional?

[rbarn]

Can never have too much filtration
Especially for Discus.

This will be in the garage on other side of wall from aquarium
in insulated "equipment cabinet"


Attractions:

I can build this for about half the cost of an FX5

I will have 2-4 times the filtration of an FX5

The more actual water volume you have the better.
water gets dirty slower and it offsets all the gravel wood and rocks in the
tank, so that I will have a true 100gallons in the system instead of 60-70

Canister filter has about 1/2" of filter floss to pass thru to
help polish water. This will have about 2 feet of filter floss.

Place to keep all the heaters and diffusers that I think just
ruin a nice tank.

This will also be part of a hands off continuous drip water change
system too. Cant do that with a canister.


Canisters are nice cause you pull them out of the box, snap em together
and you're done. Which is what 99% of the population needs. Sumps can
be made for cheaper and provide twice the filtration though if you like
tinkering like I do.

[ath3ist]

very nice sump layout, keep us updated with the project

[Hoppy]

I will be following this one too. I never tried a sump, and still may not do so, but I say that about a lot of stuff, then before I know it I have an overpowering urge to make one.

[kali]

Originally Posted by rbarn

Can never have too much filtration
Sumps can
be made for cheaper and provide twice the filtration

sump can be really good for bio filter but never for mechanical filter. run the sump with the fx5 . prefect of both worlds

[rbarn]

Originally Posted by kali

but never for mechanical filter. run the sump with the fx5 . prefect of both worlds

Yes it can, sumps are MUCH better mechanical filter if designed right.

Trick is making sure water flows up thru filter floss in staged
chambers that it can not bypass around.

Making animation that shows water flow thru the sump. Stand by.

[PDX-PLT]

Originally Posted by rbarn

Can never have too much filtration
Especially for Discus.

Lots of discus keepers use minimal filtration; e.g., only running a sponge filter doing some bio filtration. They consider mechanical filtration a bad thing - the filter traps and holds waste, which then decomposes and ultimately adds to the nitrate level in the tank, which they try to keep as low as possible.

As a substitute for mechanical filtration, they do large, frequent water changes, during which they remove the waste. This seems to be preferred over a continuous WC system.

If you're dealing with adults, rather than fast-growing juveniles, this is less of an issue. With adults, there's less food waste and excrement to deal with.

Also, I wondered about the "sealed top". I thought one feature of a sump was exposure of the bio media to the air, to enhance the function of the aerobic bacteria. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought you didn't want a sealed top with a sump (which is why they tend not to be preferred in CO2 systems, as compared to canisters).

[rbarn]

Bit of a common misunderstanding there.

Wet/Dry's dont add any real O2 to water or bio-media in the trickle area
Good top to bottom circulation in the tank takes care of that along with
the overflow box itself.

Co2 guys dont like em cause most are designed to agitate the water a lot
which causes out gassing. This sump takes care of that.


Discus guys use sponge filters and massive water changes cause juvi
Discus require 6 or more feedings a day and yes that makes a mess out
of ANY filter. Why they keep bare bottom tanks too.

I plan on getting adults to bypass the headaches of keeping young Discus.

This is going to be a planted tank also so the usual messy Discus diet of
beef heart will be dialed back as well.


Nice thing about this sump will be ease of maintenance too.
Pre-filter sponges and filter floss will be able to be changed quicker and easier
than a canister filter. just open lid and pull and replace. Whole thing could stay
running at same time as well.

[wkndracer]

The debate regarding filtration is never ending.
I'm dialing back on my defense of the sump but really liked your efforts on the 3D animation. Kudos X2 and enjoy your new build!

I'll be flooding mine when I return from vacation in two weeks and will find out then how well my design will really work. At the very least it will be easier to access and clean.

[rbarn]

Water flow animation

Every time ball travels up in the first 4 chambers it will be
passing thru either pre-filter sponge of filter floss.

Big chamber in center is for bio-media.

[kid creole]

The funny thing about sumps is that people who don't have them like to tell people who do have them how bad they are. I don't get it.

[Regloh]

Well as a general feedback to the guys who are arguing FOR sumps, you got me interested. I may, one day, try it. One thing I have been thinking about is the following.

Most anti-sump people claim the CO2 loss due to large surface contact with the air... especially if you have a "dry" section or a trickle filter in there. What about using that particular area and flooding it with CO2. Wouldn't that be a near perfect reactor?
What do you think?

[kali]

Originally Posted by rbarn

Yes it can, sumps are MUCH better mechanical filter if designed right.

Trick is making sure water flows up thru filter floss in staged
chambers that it can not bypass around.

Making animation that shows water flow thru the sump. Stand by.

i would love to see how your sump turn out and how it help you with mechanical filter ...on my 210 gallon reef ready tank . with oceanic sump .design really well . 3 big sponge filter for mechanical but my water never crytal clean .. till i got my eheim pro 3 2080 in there ,,now it talking about business . LOL , keep us post as the plan go along please

[sunfire99]

Originally Posted by kid creole

The funny thing about sumps is that people who don't have them like to tell people who do have them how bad they are. I don't get it.

Now that's the truth.

I don't "defend" sumps, but would argue the claims that they are "not good for planted tanks". As for CO2 offgassing, my 5lb cylinder is approaching 3 months use in a 100 gallon display tank that uses a sump, and that's running CO2 12 hours per day. The sump is also an EXCELLENT mechanical filter. I use only a 100 micron filter sock on the overflow and it removes 4 or 5 times the gunk that the XP3 running in the same tank collects.