10 ft. Long Stand, Double Tank Advice

[intermediate_noob]

Originally Posted by BiscuitSlayer

I am having a hard time visualizing what you are saying above, especially with the "rails and stiles". You plan on using plywood to create the frame for the panel?

Sorry, I mean using plywood for the door frame. Rails=horizontal members and stiles=vertical members. So yes, I was thinking about using plywood for the frame. Now I am not so sure.

Also, I am starting to worry about the climate here being so dry. I have been reading some woodworking forums regarding warping and such in arid climates like here in NM and in AZ. Should I be concerned? I know what leaving wood out in my garage looks like after a couple of months and I sure as heck do not my doors looking like that.

Thank you for the other input on the remainder of the door questions. I feel a lot less apprehension with doing this.

Now, onto a different topic (if others want to weigh in on the doors, please do!). What about drawers? Anyone build them? Should I just use pocket screws and not try to go with anything fancy like dovetails or box ends? Don't get me wrong, I would love to go fancy, but in reality I do not want to buy tools or jigs that I will never use as money is very tight right now. Again, any help is appreciated. Thanks!

[BiscuitSlayer]

I have a different tactic for you, possibly.

What if you ran the dado groove on the flat side of the 1 x 2s and then outlined the plywood panel with the pieces? The 1 x 2s would just be a trim to make it look more finished, but they wouldn't be as difficult to fasten/construct. You could even screw them in from the side facing the inside of your stand. I'll bet that would look damn good and it would be easy too. Especially if you are shooting for the doors to be inset.

Edit: If you go with a hardwood plywood, there isn't going to be any warping at 1/2" or better. This stuff is as hard as a rock, and the ply construction elminates the warping properties of the wood itself.

[intermediate_noob]

Originally Posted by BiscuitSlayer

I have a different tactic for you, possibly.
What if you ran the dado groove on the flat side of the 1 x 2s and then outlined the plywood panel with the pieces? The 1 x 2s would just be a trim to make it look more finished, but they wouldn't be as difficult to fasten/construct. You could even screw them in from the side facing the inside of your stand. I'll bet that would look damn good and it would be easy too. Especially if you are shooting for the doors to be inset.

OK, I must be dense. I am not understanding what you mean.

When you say "flat side" do you mean 2" (1.5) side? So like rabbeting the edge of the 1x2 and then attaching the 1/2", 3/8", or whatever panel to the edge?

Sorry, I am not full conscious today or something. Please speak slower

[BiscuitSlayer]

IN -

You aren't dense. You got my point exactly with the appropriate terminology.

[redman88]

intermediate when you get this done i want make a trip up there to see it

[intermediate_noob]

Originally Posted by redman88

intermediate when you get this done i want make a trip up there to see it

That sounds like a plan. You can take some of my Endler's while you are here!

[intermediate_noob]

Originally Posted by BiscuitSlayer

IN -

You aren't dense. You got my point exactly with the appropriate terminology.

Biscuit, wow I cannot believe I actually understood. It has been a crazy week. You know the ones where you dream about work and cannot de-stress?

Anyway. I like your idea, and it sounds as though it would be easier and would still allow for a little fudge factor as everything does not have to be 100% straight. Without a table saw ripping large pieces of plywood can be tough.

for the plywood on your stand, did you just get the Oak or Birch kind from the big chain stores? I am looking at this stuff:
http://www.arauco.cl/araucoplyusa/in...n.asp?idq=1816

It is not hardwood so I am worried, but it comes in as much cheaper and is so much better in quality than what my local HD and Lowes have in stock with regard to hardwood types. Any experience with it or advice? Thanks again for all the help!

[redman88]

Originally Posted by intermediate_noob

That sounds like a plan. You can take some of my Endler's while you are here!

only if i am done setting up my 29 gallon

[BiscuitSlayer]

Originally Posted by intermediate_noob

Anyway. I like your idea, and it sounds as though it would be easier and would still allow for a little fudge factor as everything does not have to be 100% straight. Without a table saw ripping large pieces of plywood can be tough.

for the plywood on your stand, did you just get the Oak or Birch kind from the big chain stores? I am looking at this stuff:
http://www.arauco.cl/araucoplyusa/in...n.asp?idq=1816

I bought the oak plywood from Lowes. It sounds like the stock I have access to is in better shape than what you have access to. Maybe my store is able to move more product which enables me to see fresh stuff when I make a visit. The only problem I have with the hardwood plywood at Lowes is occasionally, it has pretty bad water stains on the veneer side. Do you have any access to lumber yards in your area? Even if they don’t carry what you are looking for, they might be able to give you a special order price. As long as you don’t have to front the money before placing the order, it might be worth a shot.

I haven't used the product that you referred to. It looks interesting. The tongue and groove aspect would give some flexibility as well as scalability. I would be a little concerned about the finishing aspect though. If it does use a pine veneer, I would be concerned about how it will look stained, if you go that route.

If you use mortise and tennon joints on your rails and stiles for the boarder pieces and get your plywood cut pretty close to the dimensions of your rabbit cuts in the frame, you should have no problem with warping if you are using hardwoods. I see no reason for this to be a great looking rock solid solution to your door situation. It also should be relatively easy to execute with the tools you have on hand as well as your knowledge of woodworking.

One option that you might have is to make your frame up and then get the dimensions that you need for the plywood inserts. If you wanted to use a certain thickness of plywood, I would be happy to scout things out here and cut them down to your specifications. Unless the doors are huge, I wouldn't imagine that shipping would be that much.

[intermediate_noob]

Originally Posted by BiscuitSlayer

I bought the oak plywood from Lowes. It sounds like the stock I have access to is in better shape than what you have access to. Maybe my store is able to move more product which enables me to see fresh stuff when I make a visit. The only problem I have with the hardwood plywood at Lowes is occasionally, it has pretty bad water stains on the veneer side. Do you have any access to lumber yards in your area? Even if they don’t carry what you are looking for, they might be able to give you a special order price. As long as you don’t have to front the money before placing the order, it might be worth a shot.

My biggest issue is time for the other lumber yards. What I mean is that they are only open Mon - Fri, 8-5 and my work does not allow me to go to places like this. So my options were limited. I now get every other Friday off, so maybe this Friday might be a good idea to go look. I know there are a couple of places here in town that sell cabinet grade plywood.

Originally Posted by BiscuitSlayer

I haven't used the product that you referred to. It looks interesting. The tongue and groove aspect would give some flexibility as well as scalability. I would be a little concerned about the finishing aspect though. If it does use a pine veneer, I would be concerned about how it will look stained, if you go that route.

Their tongue and groove product does look interesting, but I would only be using their normal plywood. It is the flattest and best looking stuff that Lowes or HD has and it does not have many voids in the wood (blank places in the layers for those who may not know). I check the scrap pile each time I am there hoping that someone left a piece that I could take home, mock up, stain, etc. to see how it will look. I have to finish a project for my son so I am thinking of biting the bullet and picking up a 3/8" piece. It is only 22 dollars.

Originally Posted by BiscuitSlayer

If you use mortise and tennon joints on your rails and stiles for the boarder pieces and get your plywood cut pretty close to the dimensions of your rabbit cuts in the frame, you should have no problem with warping if you are using hardwoods. I see no reason for this to be a great looking rock solid solution to your door situation. It also should be relatively easy to execute with the tools you have on hand as well as your knowledge of woodworking.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I am just really worried about going the pine veneer route and having to redo the doors. But honestly, if I have to redo the doors, what is the harm in that?

Originally Posted by BiscuitSlayer

One option that you might have is to make your frame up and then get the dimensions that you need for the plywood inserts. If you wanted to use a certain thickness of plywood, I would be happy to scout things out here and cut them down to your specifications. Unless the doors are huge, I wouldn't imagine that shipping would be that much.

Thanks Biscuit. I really appreciate the offer. If I cannot find anything out here I will be in touch.

I have all the plans mocked up and the cut list ready to go...it is just the trepidation of making the jump. This Friday I will be making a trip to all the lumber yards and then see what I can find. If nothing, then it is off to HD or Lowes to get some test pieces to try out and hopefully will be able to do something. At the very least, make some sawdust!

Well it is off to work. Have a good week everyone, and keep the comments coming!

[intermediate_noob]

OK, just a quick update. I called around to the hardwood stores and specialty wood shops in my area on Friday and have come to the conclusion that I do not have enough money for this hobby

Oak plywood was close to 80 dollars a sheet at most places, but I bet the quality was top notch (did not even go down there). However, one place said they had some nice "basswood" plywood that took stain real well. Around $42 a sheet. Only issue is the size. I cannot fit a 4x8 sheet into the wife's SUV so it would have to be cut by about 4-6". They do not have anything to do that. Foiled again (all my friends traded in their trucks for little cars due to gas prices).

So. My solution will be to buy the pine plywood at my local HD or Lowes and do something with the stain. I also went ahead and priced some of the 1x4s and such for the doors and think I have a pretty good idea of what I need, how much it will cost, and how to go about building the doors. I am still torn on whether to do mitered corner doors with the floating panel or mortis and tenon joints with the rails and stiles being perpendicular. Both rely on my skills with power tools which is scary in and of itself.

My final project this weekend was to clean out my garage as my normal workshop (friend's garage) is not able to be used. I was able to get the radial arm saw up off the floor, get the router and miter saw onto a makeshift stand, and to clear off enough room to setup a work area using some saw horses and an old closet door. Still cannot park "Cars" in the garage, but beggers can't be choosers.

Next on my list of things to do is to build this: http://www.lowescreativeideas.com/id..._Jig_0808.aspx.

"Why?" do you ask? Well, I only have one pair of hands and this will make it easier for me to align the pieces of the stand for the 135, the face frame, the doors, etc. This will just go a little further to make sure things are square seeing as though I do not have access to a planer or joiner right now. (BTW, HD seems to have a good stock of straight 2x6s so I am hoping to get over there to get some to build the 135 stand).

So I am no farther than I was, but feel like I am making progress. If that makes sense. Stay tuned folks, I SWEAR I am going to finish this.

[lumpyfunk]

Originally Posted by intermediate_noob

Now, onto a different topic (if others want to weigh in on the doors, please do!). What about drawers? Anyone build them? Should I just use pocket screws and not try to go with anything fancy like dovetails or box ends? Don't get me wrong, I would love to go fancy, but in reality I do not want to buy tools or jigs that I will never use as money is very tight right now. Again, any help is appreciated. Thanks!

I finally made it through this thread!

My father in law just built his first drawers using the pocket screws. They look good and seem sturdy.

I have an distant family member that builds displays that you see in department stores. He often will use a router to take off half of the width on the ends of the box or drawer panels at an equal depth. when the corners are put together there is a lot more surface area for the glue to be applied to. It makes the corners fit together with a zig zag.

[intermediate_noob]

Originally Posted by lumpyfunk

I finally made it through this thread!

My father in law just built his first drawers using the pocket screws. They look good and seem sturdy.

I have an distant family member that builds displays that you see in department stores. He often will use a router to take off half of the width on the ends of the box or drawer panels at an equal depth. when the corners are put together there is a lot more surface area for the glue to be applied to. It makes the corners fit together with a zig zag.

Thank you for the info lumpy! I was thinking of doing this same thing and just rabbeting out the joint like you were saying. I think this would be a really good idea for a nice and simple drawer. Did your family member put faces on the drawers? So was it the box and then another piece of wood for the face, or just the box? Just wondered.

Thanks again for the input!

[Hoppy]

That drawer construction method was the one I used most of the time. I used Baltic Birch plywood, cut a groove in one piece and a rabbet in the other piece, to leave a tongue that fit into the groove. Only I used a table saw for all of the cuts. These 4 pieces, plus a piece of 1/4" plywood for the bottom, made the drawer. Then, if the drawer was to have a front to match the doors, I made that separately and screwed it to the drawer box. If the drawer was behind a cabinet door, I just cut a finger clearance half moon on the front of the drawer. European drawer slides completed the installation. I could make a dozen drawers in one day using that technique. And, they were very strong.

[intermediate_noob]

Originally Posted by Hoppy

That drawer construction method was the one I used most of the time. I used Baltic Birch plywood, cut a groove in one piece and a rabbet in the other piece, to leave a tongue that fit into the groove. Only I used a table saw for all of the cuts. These 4 pieces, plus a piece of 1/4" plywood for the bottom, made the drawer. Then, if the drawer was to have a front to match the doors, I made that separately and screwed it to the drawer box. If the drawer was behind a cabinet door, I just cut a finger clearance half moon on the front of the drawer. European drawer slides completed the installation. I could make a dozen drawers in one day using that technique. And, they were very strong.

Thank you Hoppy, I really appreciate the input.. Did you mean something like this.