Indigo's Fertilizer Autodosing System (56K)

[imeridian]

I used this solution (not counting the new addition of extra K) before I put it into pumps, it was fine for the year before the pumps. Simply using the pump to do it instead of measuring it myself won't be a dramatic difference. I haven't had any issues with this current batch as far as my levels being off (been testing N & P levels since I made the change in K dosing to verify that).

I am going to remove the extra K from the dosing, like I mentioned earlier, just because I know it's pushing the limits and it's not really necessary anyway, but I could easily add extra water to help better keep the K2SO4 in solution instead (adjusting dosing time of course to compensate). In that regard I agree, the solution is a bit more dense at the bottom where it's taken up by the pump. It's just at the edge of staying in solution, so with a little swirl every week it's okay. I only have maybe two weeks left to go anyway.

If it makes you feel any better, I mixed up the solution (minus the meythlene blue & extra K) and let it sit on my desk in an erlenmeyer flask for months to see what would happen. It did grow an interesting little fungus, but otherwise no settling. So, while I understand where you're coming from, I've thought this through and I'm not concerned.

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[gmccreedy]

I have seen many people doing this, its nothing new and as long as the solution is dilluted and mixed properly, it has never caused issues that have been expressly stated.

[imeridian]

Indeed, one just needs to make sure the solution is stable at the temperature it'll be stored. I goofed a little when I added the K2SO4 to my solution without adjusting the water volume, it's just a bit too close to the limit when at 75 degrees in my stand.

[original kuhli]

Cool, thanks...the last thing I wanted to do was add a stirrer to my already silly bill for autochanging and dosing...

[imeridian]

No problem. I like to keep my solutions extremely concentrated, as I believe it helps prevent weird things from growing, but care does need to be taken so as to not make them so concentrated they fall out of solution. If you stay far enough away from the limit they will stay in solution indefinitely.

Hehe, I'd put a stirrer on the list anyway, I'm eventually going to get one. Every couple of months I go to ebay, put one in my "watch list" and then I don't buy it. I can imagine mixing things up to be so much easier, but it's hard to justify the $80 for something I can do myself by shaking the flask.

[AndrewH]

Originally Posted by gmccreedy

This is the way the pumps work. They are not speed regulated, they are set to deliver a preset volume per time, so they are extremely accurate.

I believe there is some voltility in doing this, but I can't quite recall the exact reasoning... Indiboi?

Why put something in the canopy when you can plumb it into the stand? This is a matter of preference, but I like having as much equipment as possible in the stand and I think Indiboi has the same line of reasoning. $80 for a pump isn't so bad, its solid equipment and reliable.

I guess this is possible, but there is some chance of clogging since the drip would be so slow.

This is basically what he is doing, but its on the outlet of the pump. Letting the pump draw it in will have some back pressure on the line, thats why the pump selection is critical.

Originally Posted by Wasserpest

You can't mix macros and micros because the phosphate reacts with the iron, resulting in a shower of FePO4 which makes both nutrients unavailable to plants.

You could leave the K2PO4 out of the macros and then mix them. I found it is better not to mix them anyway as there is always a chance for some reaction and settling of the mixture.

Having the fertilizer reservoir in the canopy sounds like a more complex solution, besides most canopies are heavy enough. Solenoids aren't exactly cheap either... And connecting this to the inlet of the filter sounds like a good idea until it sucks air for some reason.

I found that with the APT pumps there is a little bit of flow even if the pump is not running. Putting them on the filter outlet allows to use a simple check valve to prevent backflow. On the inlet that would be difficult to solve.

Originally Posted by indiboi

gmccreedy and Wasserpest, thank you, you gave basically the same answers that I would have.

I chose this method of dosing as I found it to be the most elegant solution to the problem. It costs what it costs. There are many ways to do it for less, and even a few where it'll cost even more.

Ahhh, those answers make since to me. I guess my reasoning for wanting to put the ferts in the canopy were to use gravity to my advantage instead of trying to overcome it , but like you said getting a clog would stop the ferts all together.

I think my other idea regarding putting the inlets from the ferts onto the inlet of the canister was to also reduce the amount of total equipment, but again I didn't realize the fert amounts needed to be as accurate as possible .

I'm getting solenoids for $30 each (for 1/4" or 3/8" tubing ) .

Well I certainly appreciate you taking the time to explain the design details to me. I definitely like the design and plan to use it (or something like it).

[gmccreedy]

Originally Posted by AndrewH

I'm getting solenoids for $30 each (for 1/4" or 3/8" tubing ) .

What are you planning on doing with those? A water changer? I hope its not for dosing...that would be something to see...lol.

[Wasserpest]

Originally Posted by gmccreedy

I have seen many people doing this, its nothing new and as long as the solution is dilluted and mixed properly, it has never caused issues that have been expressly stated.

Originally Posted by indiboi

Indeed, one just needs to make sure the solution is stable at the temperature it'll be stored. I goofed a little when I added the K2SO4 to my solution without adjusting the water volume, it's just a bit too close to the limit when at 75 degrees in my stand.

Originally Posted by original kuhli

Cool, thanks...the last thing I wanted to do was add a stirrer to my already silly bill for autochanging and dosing...

Originally Posted by indiboi

No problem. I like to keep my solutions extremely concentrated, as I believe it helps prevent weird things from growing, but care does need to be taken so as to not make them so concentrated they fall out of solution. If you stay far enough away from the limit they will stay in solution indefinitely.

Hehe, I'd put a stirrer on the list anyway, I'm eventually going to get one. Every couple of months I go to ebay, put one in my "watch list" and then I don't buy it. I can imagine mixing things up to be so much easier, but it's hard to justify the $80 for something I can do myself by shaking the flask.

For macros, I recommend the Wasser-Pump method, which will mix the mixture each time the doser doses!

[bgoodwins]

Shameless plug. Shameless i tell you!

[AndrewH]

Originally Posted by gmccreedy

What are you planning on doing with those? A water changer? I hope its not for dosing...that would be something to see...lol.

Yeah, I have them on my water changer.

Dosing with a solenoid would be pretty tough, but probably do-able if you wanted to work out the math.

[imeridian]

The check valves and tees have become clogged, partly because of flush timer failure allowing the Fourish and macro solution to mingle, and partly because some strange gelatinous substance has formed within the lines. The line with the Flourish in it actually blew off from the tee, splattering fairly well the inside of my cabinet.

I'm still having tremendous difficulty with my timers, they seem to constantly reset. I haven't forked over the cash for the Aqua Controller yet... a 42" LCD TV has taken control of my finances for the next while.

I've removed the check valves as of this writing, they seem to get in the way more than help. Without the check valves in the way I can pop the tubing off the pumps and do a back-flush periodically.

I'm not really sure exactly how well this is going to work without the check valves though, they allowed for filling the line completely with solution and then it basically 'dripped' out from the valve and then was flushed into the system. Now they're open, but I figure the solution only has one place to go, which is into the aquarium, so even if it isn't as even as before I suppose it's okay. I guess I just don't like being unable to squeeze the air out as I did before.

I still don't really know what the "best" way to go about this would be, but I can say that the 'multiple lines into one' certainly isn't it, at least not in my original design.

I think I'm going to purchase some manual timers and just adjust my solutions to work in fifteen minute increments.

[Wasserpest]

Not sure about your timers. If it is just the Grasslin type that acts up buy some other brands. They cost under $10 in Target etc. and allow for minute precision.

I find it advantageous to inject fertilizers back-pressure-less, just open ended lines over the rim into the tank. That way you don't have to deal with clogging check valves and back pressure which might fill your fertilizer bottles with tank water.

I use peristaltic pumps for micros (Flourish) in a concentrated solution, and there are few clogging problems. For macros, I use a little water pump as I mentioned earlier, which is extremely reliable, and as a side benefits, agitates and mixes the solution each time during dosing.

I have the 6x irrigation timer/relay setup ready to assemble under my desk, but haven't had a quiet hour or two to sit there and solder it all together. I'll share the results once I have them.