patents(?) - Page 2

mistergreen · 10-17-2007, 04:45 AM

here you go. Listen to the radio-cast. It'll give you some helpful info and that website.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=12877611

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puchisapo · 10-17-2007, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knuggs

I also heard of people getting papers notarized and then mailing them to themselves. The letter will come back with a government stamp. This would be good for extra security, if you are to manufacture it yourself. If someone would steal your idea then you would have proof from the federal government that is in fact yours. If someone else tried to create the same then you can sue.

i looked around a little bit. it sounds as though the "poor man's patent" is urban myth.

most of the results that Google returns for patent-related queries look like scams. but this seems like a well-reasoned explanation of the certified letter idea:

http://patentpending.blogs.com/paten...or_mans_p.html

much better to file, but hard for somebody starting with no capital!

i wish that i could explain the idea here to get some more feedback, but i don't want to have pictures floating around.

cheers and thanks again

-D

PDX-PLT · 10-17-2007, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knuggs

If someone would steal your idea then you would have proof from the federal government that is in fact yours. If someone else tried to create the same then you can sue.

No, you wouldn't have anything to sue for. This common fallacy is not true because under the law, there's no such thing as "stealing an idea". You tell someone your idea for a new widget, and there's nothing to stop him from taking it, making alot of money on it, and owe you nothing. The law is tilted to the benefit of consumers, and having multiple producers all competing against each other is considered a good thing. You actually have to go through the trouble of getting a patent before you have any protection.

The letter could be used to establish you had the idea at a certain date. But that doesn't prevent anyone else from using it. And as the above blog reference mentions, keeping it confidential is not an effective way of estsblishing "prior art" should someone else go ahead and apply for a patent for it.

Now "publishing" an idea in a public venue is an effective way of establishing prior art. The "gotcha" is that if you do that before filing a patent application, you throw away any non-U.S. patent rights. For U.S. patents, publishing starts a 1-year time clock during which you must file an application, or lose your chance.

puchisapo · 10-22-2007, 05:32 AM

i listened to that radio show and acquired some more jargon. licensees are the manufacturers/marketers (typically companies) of products who enter into agreements with patent holders for production and sale. the sell sheet is a document or presentation that the inventor puts together as pitch to potential licensees. a work for hire agreement protects the patent holder from "theft" of their ideas. it is signed by anybody who might work on preliminary devlopment, such as drawings or the construction of prototype.

**jaidexl** · 10-22-2007, 06:08 AM

Just a tid-bit of my own thoughts on the matter, I will probably get barfed on by the legal-know-alls in the forum, but I'm not known for thinking conventionally in real life, either.

I produce music. Now, I'm very modest, realistic, and don't think my music is worth protecting in the industry, but I am an artist and feel I should protect my own creations. What I use is the internet, think 'paper trail', or digital, rather. I upload the same things in so many places that I could tell you my artist name and you'll pull up "1 - 10 of about 553" hits from google at this very moment, over 98% of which would be linked back to myself. That's hard proof of what I did, and no one else. A lot of what goes on through the internet is thought to be BS, because of the old "don't believe what you read" mentality created by the media, and the security issues at hand, and because it's still new. But if people use it properly, it can become an even more powerful tool. People might say I'm an idiot, but I say throw your idea out there hard, everywhere you can. Make a trail with the tool at your finger tips. F*&% the money and the greed world, this is still a new tool for us and it's going to revolutionize society beyond our perceptions if it's used properly. Thanks to the web, as many other aspects of life have become history, greed is not going to be the main driving force of humanity forever.

Patents were born on paper, but we don't use paper anymore. Laws change over time, at least do it for our great great grandkids that one day might be able to stake their claim without feeding the rich. It's better than doing nothing at all.

**Tdon1md** · 10-22-2007, 08:36 AM

Best of luck. It's not too often that I get to hear about, sorta, a new idea as there are very few. Hope you're able to get the bugs worked out and go to market. I can sit back on a Sunday afternoon and say I "knew" you when............

puchisapo · 10-22-2007, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaidexl

Patents were born on paper, but we don't use paper anymore. Laws change over time......

i have already had the experience of somebody trying to jack one of my publications, an experience that i do not wish to repeat. the provisional patent is cheap and easy. the protection it affords is imperfect, but better than nothing.

Church · 10-22-2007, 06:43 PM

Beware of anyone telling you not to get a patent... it's bad advice, and I would personally (call me paranoid, I don't care) think they will be the first ones to steal your idea.

You MUST get a patent if your idea is good and real. People are thieves.

PDX-PLT · 10-22-2007, 11:54 PM

Music is covered by copyright, and completely different legal animal. You don't need to apply for a copyright, it is granted automatically as soon as the music is created.

mistergreen · 10-23-2007, 12:24 AM

I have an idea and you can steal it if you want.. The problem is reasearching and producing it...

Fish and water would be put in this semi-permeable plastic bag like when you buy fish from the fish store. The bag is not permeable when there's air on the other side so you can take it home with no leaks.

When you put the bag in the tank, the bag starts exchanging water with the tank and visa versa. Wait 15 or so minutes and the water in the bag is the same as in the tank... Acclimation at its finest. No more shock.
Of course, you can have the same effect by cutting tiny little holes once a bag has floated in a regular platic bag (maybe?).

LordMaximo · 10-25-2007, 02:45 AM

I came with an auto design many years ago in college. Even built a couple rough proto types with limited funds. It was a novalty to my friends, but to another one of my associates, he just copied everything I had, took some pictures and ran off with my designs. 20 years later, Volvo has produced a rather similar style of cruiser and Mitsubishi has been using one of my designs in their racing adventures for more then 5 years. It really sucks when you run out of money and some POS just manages to take off with your stuff and cash in on the whole affair.
Think about what you have and how it will effect the world!
Is it truly a time saver? A cost effective item? A quick throw away like the schick shaver? Or BIC pen? Can it be made at an efficient rate with at least 1000% profit, like blow molds and water bottles?
These are the +&- of the item and how the world would percieve it. Can it be used outside of the aquadics arena? This is the main question......is it going to be a multi-functioning item........which means can it be used in other fields of play? Can it be used in the medical field? If this can be used in the medical field and also in other more technical environments, I would say go as fast as you can proceed with this adventure! Even if it is limited to three applicational fields.......it will have a better chance at being applied as a usefull tool instead of just one limited field of play.

Good luck and make it so 8>)

Maximo

puchisapo · 10-25-2007, 04:25 AM

this item definately cannot be used in any context except aquarium gardening. it is never going to make lots annd lots of money, but i don't want somebody to cash in on it. its success will depend upon the overall concept catching on among hobbyists. while i am optimistic, this is an outcome that i can't predict.

i intend to invest modestly at first and proceed with market research so that i can get a better idea of the item's potential.

10-17-2007, 04:45 AM	#16 (permalink)
mistergreen Planted Tank Guru (View User Tanks) PTrader: (1) Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 2,931	here you go. Listen to the radio-cast. It'll give you some helpful info and that website. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=12877611 __________________ Algae happens.

10-22-2007, 08:36 AM	#21 (permalink)
Tdon1md Planted Tank Anti-Guru (View User Tanks) PTrader: (2) Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Salisbury, MD Posts: 430	Best of luck. It's not too often that I get to hear about, sorta, a new idea as there are very few. Hope you're able to get the bugs worked out and go to market. I can sit back on a Sunday afternoon and say I "knew" you when............ __________________ Todd That's my 2 cents worth, and I may owe you change. Fluval Pimpmaster General! 30G broken down to make 75G 75Gallon Obsession

10-22-2007, 06:43 PM	#23 (permalink)
Church Planted Tank Enthusiast (View User Tanks) PTrader: (3) Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Tampa Posts: 928	Beware of anyone telling you not to get a patent... it's bad advice, and I would personally (call me paranoid, I don't care) think they will be the first ones to steal your idea. You MUST get a patent if your idea is good and real. People are thieves. __________________ My 20 gallon — My 10 gallon (R.I.P.) — My 5 gallon — My girlfriend's 2½ gallon "We always put animals in cages so that we can take pleasure in seeing them. Perhaps if we put them in places where they can take pleasure in living in, then we would find them more beautiful to look at when they showed themselves." -Takashi Amano

10-23-2007, 12:24 AM	#25 (permalink)
mistergreen Planted Tank Guru (View User Tanks) PTrader: (1) Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 2,931	I have an idea and you can steal it if you want.. The problem is reasearching and producing it... Fish and water would be put in this semi-permeable plastic bag like when you buy fish from the fish store. The bag is not permeable when there's air on the other side so you can take it home with no leaks. When you put the bag in the tank, the bag starts exchanging water with the tank and visa versa. Wait 15 or so minutes and the water in the bag is the same as in the tank... Acclimation at its finest. No more shock. Of course, you can have the same effect by cutting tiny little holes once a bag has floated in a regular platic bag (maybe?). __________________ Algae happens.

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10-22-2007, 05:32 AM	#19 (permalink)
puchisapo Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0) Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: **************** Posts: 116	i listened to that radio show and acquired some more jargon. licensees are the manufacturers/marketers (typically companies) of products who enter into agreements with patent holders for production and sale. the sell sheet is a document or presentation that the inventor puts together as pitch to potential licensees. a work for hire agreement protects the patent holder from "theft" of their ideas. it is signed by anybody who might work on preliminary devlopment, such as drawings or the construction of prototype.

10-22-2007, 06:08 AM	#20 (permalink)
jaidexl Custom User (View User Tanks) PTrader: (25) Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: 33908 Posts: 1,806	Just a tid-bit of my own thoughts on the matter, I will probably get barfed on by the legal-know-alls in the forum, but I'm not known for thinking conventionally in real life, either. I produce music. Now, I'm very modest, realistic, and don't think my music is worth protecting in the industry, but I am an artist and feel I should protect my own creations. What I use is the internet, think 'paper trail', or digital, rather. I upload the same things in so many places that I could tell you my artist name and you'll pull up "1 - 10 of about 553" hits from google at this very moment, over 98% of which would be linked back to myself. That's hard proof of what I did, and no one else. A lot of what goes on through the internet is thought to be BS, because of the old "don't believe what you read" mentality created by the media, and the security issues at hand, and because it's still new. But if people use it properly, it can become an even more powerful tool. People might say I'm an idiot, but I say throw your idea out there hard, everywhere you can. Make a trail with the tool at your finger tips. F*&% the money and the greed world, this is still a new tool for us and it's going to revolutionize society beyond our perceptions if it's used properly. Thanks to the web, as many other aspects of life have become history, greed is not going to be the main driving force of humanity forever. Patents were born on paper, but we don't use paper anymore. Laws change over time, at least do it for our great great grandkids that one day might be able to stake their claim without feeding the rich. It's better than doing nothing at all.

10-22-2007, 11:54 PM	#24 (permalink)
PDX-PLT Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0) Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Oregon Posts: 138	Music is covered by copyright, and completely different legal animal. You don't need to apply for a copyright, it is granted automatically as soon as the music is created.

10-25-2007, 02:45 AM	#26 (permalink)
LordMaximo Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0) Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Roy, UT Posts: 86	I came with an auto design many years ago in college. Even built a couple rough proto types with limited funds. It was a novalty to my friends, but to another one of my associates, he just copied everything I had, took some pictures and ran off with my designs. 20 years later, Volvo has produced a rather similar style of cruiser and Mitsubishi has been using one of my designs in their racing adventures for more then 5 years. It really sucks when you run out of money and some POS just manages to take off with your stuff and cash in on the whole affair. Think about what you have and how it will effect the world! Is it truly a time saver? A cost effective item? A quick throw away like the schick shaver? Or BIC pen? Can it be made at an efficient rate with at least 1000% profit, like blow molds and water bottles? These are the +&- of the item and how the world would percieve it. Can it be used outside of the aquadics arena? This is the main question......is it going to be a multi-functioning item........which means can it be used in other fields of play? Can it be used in the medical field? If this can be used in the medical field and also in other more technical environments, I would say go as fast as you can proceed with this adventure! Even if it is limited to three applicational fields.......it will have a better chance at being applied as a usefull tool instead of just one limited field of play. Good luck and make it so 8>) Maximo

10-25-2007, 04:25 AM	#27 (permalink)
puchisapo Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0) Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: **************** Posts: 116	this item definately cannot be used in any context except aquarium gardening. it is never going to make lots annd lots of money, but i don't want somebody to cash in on it. its success will depend upon the overall concept catching on among hobbyists. while i am optimistic, this is an outcome that i can't predict. i intend to invest modestly at first and proceed with market research so that i can get a better idea of the item's potential.