Autodosing for Dummies

[Wasserpest]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Will mixing everything will the exception of phosphates in one container cause the micros to degrade?

Not sure if anyone can answer this question at this time... Besides the phosphate - iron reaction, I am not aware of any other problems. However, there are many elements in the micro mix, so... who knows.

I have started dosing small doses of full strength micro solution which doesn't seem to degrade or grow mold. The waterpump dosing described in this thread works great for macros though.

[vidiots]

When I ordered my ferts from Greg Watson, I asked him which I could mix and this was his response:

"Basically you can mix everything except the Plantex CSM+B ... phosphate and the Iron that is in the Plantex CSM have a tendancy to bond and percipitate out in a relatively unuseable form ... now this is not an instantaneous process ... you can think of it like rusting ... this process will naturally occur in your aquarium over time (think of it in the context that there is always Iron present and always phosphate present, so this slow process is ongoing) ... but what you really don't want to do is facilitate that process in a solution <grin> ... "

[StrikeEagle1]

Can you just have two systems, one containing macros (without phosphate I guess) and the other with CSM+B mixed up?

So underneath tank, two containers, two pumps on the same 1 min timer, etc?

Looking to automate my dosing since I'm active duty and gone a lot.

[Wasserpest]

Sure you can, see vidiots picture a little earlier this thread. And you could add P to the macro mix, if you inject macros and micros a little apart from each other into your tank there shouldn't be any problems with precipitation.

[StrikeEagle1]

Awesome...before I buy stuff here are a couple of other questions...

I'm assuming the Hydor Pico 500 would work (close to the one you suggested)

Hydor Pico 500 Pump at Big Al's Online

I would buy two and use my Neptune Aquacontroller to manage the on/off of the pumps, can assign each a different number and dose at different times. Trying to make a lot automated as you can see...

For connecting the output of the pump to airline tubing...how? Maybe use standard size tubing from Lowes to connect to the pump (whatever the pump uses, 16/22, etc) and then a barb reduction also from Lowes to make it connect to airline tubing?

[Wasserpest]

I had a Hydor Pico 500 (I think) doing the dosing for a while, and it is noisy, weak, and gets airlocked easily. I have much better results with AS MiniJet 606's.

Thing you have to remember is that they are running only a minute per day, so if they collect air for some reason and can't purge it quickly they won't work so well after a couple of days.

Also, if you plan to put the container underneath your tank, you need a certain wattage to get the liquid delivered up to the tank rim. I had to lift up some containers a bit, sitting on the bottom of the stand the pumps turned out too weak. Keep in mind you can easily adjust the dosed quantity by sizing the nozzle on the end of the tubing.

Not sure about an universal way to connect the pump and the airline tubing. I use plastic oral syringes to step down the diameter, and connect the syringe with another little piece of vinyl tubing. Barb reducers would work, I guess you could even use one of those $1 plastic checkvalves, open them up, and use the housing as a reducer.

[StrikeEagle1]

Hey all, finally had some time and decided to put one of these together...

Went to Lowes and managed to get everything I needed except for the reservoir container. Got a Submersible Fountain Pump that had the same relative numbers (~160 GPH, etc) with a 1/2" ID connection. Then went to the plumbing section and got some 1/2" ID hose, and then some reducing items. Basically went from the 1/2" barb to a 3/16" barb and got the appropriate tubing. Also picked up the electronic timer!

Got it all home, installed everything and tested out the output on the pump. I also installed a ball valve to regulate the amount that the pump delivered. Everything went together pretty well and hopefully it'll stay together

Some pictures....

Before install (you can see the brass barb reduction fitting I put together and the ball valve)


Under the tank...


All in all easy so far, have to wait to see if everything works as advertised...or at least how I hope it does! Thanks for the info on this thread, greatly helpful from all!

[Wasserpest]

Looks great, thanks for posting the pictures!

Using a ball valve to regulate the dosing is a good idea. Where did you get that valve? I was just looking for exactly the same thing in HD, and they only had those huge white plastic ball valves for Sched 40 PVC connections. No Lowes in town... yet.

How long will this solution autodose your tank? I have mine set to dose 4 weeks now, I feel that's a good interval.

[StrikeEagle1]

I got the ball valve from Ball Valves
The smallest is 1/2" for tubing but that works great since I have a 1/2" output from the pond pump. The pump itself which is just one of those fountain pumps from the pond section has a adjustment on it also, but right now I have that on max with the ball valve slightly closed.

The barbs and reducer took a bit of time to figure out but so far are working out great.

I'm putting a little less than 1 cup of solution every day from the reservoir. I would have to decrease that amount to increase how long I can autodose.
Right now I'm trying out a two week dose and if that works I'll see about increasing the time frame.

It's awesome so far not having to remember to dose. Only thing that isn't in the mix is P so I'll just add that every week.

[vidiots]

Looks like it should work. I too like the idea of the ball valve, should allow for better fine tuning. Did you test to see how consistantly it dosed near full versus near empty? When I was testing different things I found that short wide shallow containers were more consistant than tall narrow deep containers because the height of the fluid changed less. Although I think you are using a more powerful pump than I am so the pressure caused by the height of the liquid maybe insignifigant compared to the pressure generated by the pump.

[Wasserpest]

Like you said, getting a pump that is strong enough is the key in preventing fluctuations due to the height of fluid. The restriction from the ball valve (or nozzle hole size on the outflow) needs to reduce the flow, not the head pressure from pumping the solution up into the tank.

If the fluid just so drips out of the airline into the tank, changes in fluid levels will have a huge effect.

[Betowess]

Strike Eagle, Are you not mixing CSM+B with KNO3 and K? I have started out that way, but that post above makes me a little apprehensive. Anybody else?

I have some Flourish on the way and some TMG I just bought so I could use/substitute those for traces instead of the CSM+B.

I am only using one container for trace/KNO3/Pottasium and am dosing PO4 manually. I have one of these set up on two different tanks, two independent units - and am trying to avoid setting up two other units for PO4 or for traces.

I am also curious if anyone has noted a degradation of the traces over time. I have my cereal container set for a one minute dose daily, and it lasts ~2 days over three weeks... I have it fairly well blacked out to help prevent mold, until I buy some HCL (or try putting some Excel?) to keep it sterile of molds. Any one have any experience with Flourish or TMG staying mold free without additives? Thanks, bob

[Wasserpest]

Using Flourish/Flourish Iron solutions I had always growth in my container, pump, and tubing. After a while, the stuff in the tubing would get loose and eventually block the injection hole.

Excel did not help, at least in concentrations that I used.

Dosing full strength Flourish works better for me.

[Betowess]

Originally Posted by Wasserpest

.

Dosing full strength Flourish works better for me.

And that is with the timer/liquid doser setup in your other thread? I'm curious because Donald Byrd and Rosie Hawks said they didn't have a problem, but that was a while ago?

[Wasserpest]

Yes, that's it. In this post I made a little drawing of how I have it set up. Only drawback is that P would need to be done separately.