Poor Mans Auto Dosing, Take III

[DarkCobra]

Wasser,

Nice system.

I don't know if you've solved the fungus growth in the trace solution yet, if not here's some info. All of this is taken from original discussions about PMDD on TheKrib's website.

To prevent fungal growth, add 0.5mL 9M HCl (hydrochloric/muriatic acid) per 300ml H2O. (Source link)

EDTA, the chelating agent used on iron in the trace mix, is known to be photosensitive once in liquid solution, and is best kept in the dark. Another person made the comment that at pH above 7.0, 80% of FeEDTA will decompose after two weeks. That may be another good reason to use the HCl! (Source link)

[Wasserpest]

Originally Posted by DarkCobra

I don't know if you've solved the fungus growth in the trace solution yet, if not here's some info. All of this is taken from original discussions about PMDD on TheKrib's website.

To prevent fungal growth, add 0.5mL 9M HCl (hydrochloric/muriatic acid) per 300ml H2O. (Source link)

Thanks for the tip. Before I start messing with concentrated HCl, I want to try my luck with Seachem Excel. In another thread I read that the ingredient in Excel is otherwise used as a sterilizing agent. So that MIGHT do the trick, and improve plant growth along with it.

Originally Posted by DarkCobra

EDTA, the chelating agent used on iron in the trace mix, is known to be photosensitive once in liquid solution, and is best kept in the dark. Another person made the comment that at pH above 7.0, 80% of FeEDTA will decompose after two weeks. That may be another good reason to use the HCl! (Source link)

I am using Flourish Iron... not sure if the gluconate is more or less light sensitive.
I have used the half-transparent milk bottles to better see the level during the two week dosing period. Now I am more confident that it works well, need to find some cover for the bottles. Maybe just a black plastic bag will do.

Interestingly, while there is some (minor) growth in the traces bottle, the smell of it after two weeks is still similar to a new solution. On the other hand, the NPKMg solution smells like old wet socks after two weeks. Not sure what that's all about.

[DarkCobra]

Originally Posted by Wasserpest

Thanks for the tip. Before I start messing with concentrated HCl, I want to try my luck with Seachem Excel. In another thread I read that the ingredient in Excel is otherwise used as a sterilizing agent. So that MIGHT do the trick, and improve plant growth along with it.

That's a good idea! Plus, Seachem's site says:

"Flourish Excel™ also has iron reducing properties which promote the ferrous state of iron (Fe+2), which is more easily utilized by plants than ferric iron (Fe+3)."

So there might be some nifty synergistic effects.

Originally Posted by Wasserpest

I am using Flourish Iron... not sure if the gluconate is more or less light sensitive.

TheKrib has a page on Iron Gluconate too. Plenty of info, but no mention whether it's photosensitive or not.

[PaulieYams]

I did not read through the whole thread so not sure if this was mentioned....In order to prevent growth in your nutes delivery bottles be sure they are in a dark place ...if you do not have a dark place to mount them I would suggest using Duck Tape or black electrical tape to tape up around your bottles. I know some of you put marks on your bottles to easy measure each fert so all you have to do is be sure that you leave your marks uncovered by the tape....it will keep enough light out of your nute solution and inables you to still see your markings...just a thought

[Wasserpest]

For the smaller bottles (airpump method) I use black stockings to keep them dark, for the larger ones, black plastic bags work well.

Still trying to figure out how to minimize degradation of the fluid over time. The macro bottle develops a bad smell, the micros grow some stuff. I'll look into adding HCl and see if that helps with these issues.

Dry dosing with an automatic feeder or such would work good, plus an Eheim Liquidoser for the fluids... if money isn't an issue. Of course you are losing the top-off capability that comes with the bottles.

[Naja002]

I didn't have any problems dosing everything (SeaChem) including Excel, Except for P from one clear 1 gal jug. This time though I painted it with Krylon Fusion (Plastic Enamel). I put masking tape over my marks, painted the jug and then removed the masking tape--I can see the level in the jug and the amount of light that gets in should be negligible.....

2 coats of Black for light followed by 2 coats of Hunter Green for Decor....

[Wasserpest]

For my 36 Corner Tank, I just use one container that has everything except P, like your setup. And interestingly, this one doesn't smell, nor grows much fungus... Maybe the mixture of all those things slows down the growth and degradation?

Maybe that's the way to go... just dose P seperately once or twice a week, not that much needed anyway. I might give that a try.

[Wasserpest]

I have been pondering what to do about the longevity of the macro solution. It starts to smell very bad after only a few days. Not a problem for me since it is in an enclosed container, I am just worried that it might harm the tank inhabitants, and/or lose its effectiveness.

Adding Excel hasn't helped.

Here's what I am going to do: Set up a few solutions with the various ferts (one chemical per solution) and see which one it is that makes it smell bad.

For example, if it is the Potassium Sulfate that's causing the deterioration, switching to Potassium Chloride might resolve the issue.

[Naja002]

Sounds Good.

Here's some thoughts:

I have been doing the All-in-one (Except P) Auto-dosing for a bit now. Up to 3 wks on one "Setup". One of the tanks is a shrimp tank (Cherries) and another has a bunch of Ghost Shrimp in it. I haven't had any problems at all. And, No, I haven't been sniffing the bottles, (But I have been thinking a lot more about that Cherry Wine!!!!)

I just received my GW stuff, so I will begin using that as my SeaChem stuff runs out....

[Wasserpest]

Here is what goes into my ~1/2 gal solution, which is dispensed over 2 weeks:

4 TSP KNO3
2 TSP K2SO4
1 TSP MgSO4
a little bit of KH2PO4
10 ml Excel

I haven't had any problems with shrimp and fish either, it's just one of those things that make you wonder.

[Naja002]

The phosphate conflicts with Iron (precipitation) and I'm not sure about with any others. If You are dosing P everyday with the rest of the stuff--it will always cause problems with the Iron you add.

From what I have learned--You are much better off to add your micros to that mix--and skip the P. Just dose P manually when your tank needs it.

Check out these threads:

why-alternate-trace-macros

And

SeaChem-Posts #5 and 6


.

[Wasserpest]

Not exactly sure what you are saying...

I use two different containers, one for micros, one for macros. Just for that reason, to avoid Iron and Phosphate reacting with each other.

I don't think it matters if they are dosed into the tank together, the concentrations are weak, and I have never seen any problems this way.

Again, the issue is the smell that the macro mix develops after a few days.

[Naja002]

Putting Phosphate and Iron in tank at the same time should cause precipitation. My understanding is: That's why Macros and Micros (Iron) are dosed on opposite days with EI....

Either way, its not the best idea to dose them both together.

I can currently get around it because my Phosphates stay a bit high in the tank--so I don't need to add any. But I wonder if the P that's already in the tank causes any precipitation with the Iron that I add....hmmmmm

[Wasserpest]

My take on this is that the concentrations that go into my tanks daily are much lower than a) EI recommendations and b) what one would dose as one weekly dose. a) and b) might cause problems with precipitation.

Wouldn't you SEE any precipitation as a white shower? I could even add the micros on one side and macros on the other.

But again, this isn't my concern at all. If you decide that it is better to dose on alternating days, go for it!

[Naja002]

My take on this is that the concentrations that go into my tanks daily are much lower than a) EI recommendations and b) what one would dose as one weekly dose. a) and b) might cause problems with precipitation.

Its all relative. A little P will precipitate a little Iron.

Wouldn't you SEE any precipitation as a white shower? I could even add the micros on one side and macros on the other.

I don't know, but at those low dosages--a white shower might not be enough to notice. Adding micros and macros at opposite ends of the tank isn't going to have any value an hour or less later after the filtration system/water current mixes everything up.

But again, this isn't my concern at all. If you decide that it is better to dose on alternating days, go for it!

I Auto-dose everything< except P from one container on a daily basis. I currently don't do EI, so I don't do alternating days. I am already doing what it is that You are talking about--everything in 1 container. I rarely dose P at all, because the level stays plenty high in the tank from the fish and fish food.

This isn't about Macros Vs. Micros. Its about P Vs. Fe: Phosphorus precipitates Iron--that's just the way it is. Do it however You want, but if You are dosing Iron with P and You wind up with an Iron deficiency--You'll know why. If You dose Iron with P and don't wind up with an Iron deficiency: then maybe there will be something in there for us all to learn.