Excel as a treatment for BBA? Experiences?

[kzr750r1]

What I have noticed is spot dosing is the way to go especially with Grass Shrimp. Think of tank over dosing as a last resort.

As I have said before in this thread.

Your looking to increase high concentration of Excel on a specific area.
Keeping in mind the general rules as you have read.
1) Do this just before lights out.
2) Shut the pumps off for a while so the spot dose is allowed to stand in the area in question.

I can do a single spot dose on any item in the tank and within days it fades and disappears.

This in a sense is an over dose for a specific area and allow the benefits of the product without harm the fauna.

[Complexity]

Some success, but not total yet.

I managed to bump up my CO2 a notch which is now turning the color yellow. That seems to have stopped the spreading of the BBA. It was about to explode in my tank as I found small tufts appearing on all the rocks, the filter pipes, even the substrate!

I manually cleaned the pipes and rocks. I'm not seeing any more BBA coming back, and it seems the explosive spreading has stopped.

That just leaves me to getting rid of what is in there.

I have not seen the results I had hoped for by squirting it on, but I did not turn off my filters so that may be the problem. My amanos handled the 40ml dosing without any problems. I even added more Excel by spraying it on things I could pull out of the water so there was really more than just 40ml in the tank. At one point, the whole tank smelled like Excel. No harm to anything. It knocked back the BBA where I squirted it, but I didn't keep up with it because I'm almost out. I'll try again when I get more.

I'll be moving the tank to my house in 2-4 weeks so I'm considering either hitting the plants with Excel sprayed on or doing an H2O2 treatment. It'll be one of the very few times I could treat the BBA while the fish are out of the tank.

So for anyone reading, I can confirm that 40ml of Excel in a 75g tank is not harmful to amano shrimp. I could not find confirmation of that anywhere so this will be my contribution to the thread.

[redfierydragon]

silly question here, but since seeing the success of others using excel as a spot treater, has anyone ever heard/tried using excel as a dip? I have about 100ml left of excel which I haven't used in about a year and a half since acquiring shrimp. I have 10 adult amanos, 7 adult red cherrys, and about 20 or so juvenile red cherrys and I don't want to endanger the juvies with the excel.

I've heard of how great potassium permanganate is as a dip but I was wondering if excel could work as a dip before I go out and try something more potent.

I have a red ozelot which had a little BBA which then spread it to the neighboring wisteria, anubias hastifolia, ludwigia repens, and my cryptocoyrne lutea. I wanted to try the excel first considering how fragile crypts tend to be. The BBA on the crypt has already killed off a leaf

[Complexity]

I've never used it as a dip (yet), but I've put some excel in a small spray bottle and sprayed it on plants while they're out of the water. I just put them back in the water after that (with filters off).

One week from today, I'll be breaking down my entire tank to move it. When I do, I will dip, spray, squirt, whatever it takes to kill the BBA from the plants. So I'll be able to report back on my results.

I can say that Excel doesn't harm amano shrimp (at least not in my tank). I've used t turkey baster to squirt 1/4 cup of excel into my Crypt lucens while the filters were off, and the amanos just had to come check it out. So I'm sure they received quite a bit of the Excel. Didn't seem to bother them.

Other than that, I accidentally did a large overdose of Excel in my Red Cherry Shrimp tank. I had just changed the water in that tank and my 20L. When I dosed the Excel, I got my numbers wrong and actually dosed the "after w/c" dose intended for my 20L in my 5g with the RCS. So that's 4 times the large dose. Shrimp did not care. Didn't hurt any of them (that were visible to my eyes).

So my experience with Excel with amanos and rcs is that they are not harmed.

I've also confirmed that amanos are not harmed by H2O2 when large amounts are squirted into an area and allowed to sit for 30 minutes while the amanos wandered through the area, checking it all out. Again, no noticeable affect on the amanos. In fact, I've treated with H2O2 AND Excel at the same time with no problems.

I have not tried H2O2 in my rcs tank.

Remember to ask me later if I forget to post the results of using Excel as a dip when I move my tank.

[renatl]

I have the 2 Liter of Excel and have been dosing twice the recommended dosage (2) cap fulls and in one weeks time I have seen the black algae in my tank disappear. My fish have not been bothered by it. It really works guys plus some good cleaners like the rubber nose plecos and true SAE's. Richard

[Complexity]

Update on my BBA battle. I found only one thing that really worked to get rid of the BBA. Take care of my plants.

Once I raised the CO2 as high as I could get it and maintained a solid fert program, the BBA just lost the fight. Helping also are 10 young SAEs, but I don't credit them with the full clean up. It was really the CO2 that did the trick.

I just broke down my tank to move it which let me get a good look at the plants, and I really don't see any BBA. The one crypt which got it so badly continues to have some, but it's knocked back really hard with new leaves not getting any BBA. I think I'll just cut off all the leaves and let it grow back. That will get the last of the BBA.

From there, it's just a matter of keeping up with the CO2 and ferts. The same things that make the plants grow like mad also kills out the BBA.

[mickitaz]

Okay, so if I understand the method of deployment...

I dose the Excel right before lights out and shut my powerhead and diffuser off. I maintain my normal fertilizing schedule, and bump up the co2 (pressurized system).

Do I target the excel to the affected plants (which is pretty much everything)? Do I cut back on my lighting?

thanks.

[Complexity]

I found that the CO2 was the main key. When I finally got it to 30+ppm, the BBA stopped spreading. Then all I had to do was kill what was already there.

I got 10 young SAEs which helped. I also treated with Excel which helped. And on the one plant that nothing seemed to work on — Crypt lucens — I removed all leaves that appeared to have even a tiny speck of BBA on it. Most plants ended up with 1 or maybe 2 leaves while some had no leaves at the end. Then I planted it back in the tank. So far, so good.

One thing I did notice about the BBA on that plant is that the new leaves did not have BBA even though it wouldn't seem to go away or die on the older leaves. That's a real test of how BBA responds to CO2. Nothing stopped it from spreading until I got the CO2 level high enough.

[cdub1955]

i want to try pushing up my co2 levels. I have a milwaukee controller but honestly i have not used it anymore to control the co2. I just use it to monitor PH anymore, as I use a drop checker. If i try to push the co2 levels do you recommend using the monitor? I leave the co2 on 24/7.....

Chris

[Complexity]

I'm not sure what you mean by monitor. Do you mean the pH reading on the pH controller? If so, that's what should tell you your pH reading which drops as CO2 is injected. If you want to add more CO2, then turn the knob on the controller just a little. See how that works, and if you need more, just turn it more.

Be sure you're maintaining your pH Controller's probe so it won't go bad while you're using it.

[plantbrain]

Originally Posted by Complexity

Update on my BBA battle. I found only one thing that really worked to get rid of the BBA. Take care of my plants.

Once I raised the CO2 as high as I could get it and maintained a solid fert program, the BBA just lost the fight. Helping also are 10 young SAEs, but I don't credit them with the full clean up. It was really the CO2 that did the trick.

I just broke down my tank to move it which let me get a good look at the plants, and I really don't see any BBA. The one crypt which got it so badly continues to have some, but it's knocked back really hard with new leaves not getting any BBA. I think I'll just cut off all the leaves and let it grow back. That will get the last of the BBA.

From there, it's just a matter of keeping up with the CO2 and ferts. The same things that make the plants grow like mad also kills out the BBA.

Ye hath seen the light and the path to enlightenment.

Other folks.............take note.
BBA is a scrourge, been there myself a long time ago, but once you figure out the root cause and how to address the plant needs, Excel, H2O2 etc etc.......all the quick "cures" no longer matter.

Your tank starts looking nice, you are not chasing one species to the next.
Isn't that what you wanted to do in the first place?
The way to solve algae issues is staring you right in the face and is deceptively simple.

Your goal was to grow plants, not kill algae, so grow the plants!
I do no think there are many in the know that will tell you differently.

The focus is always new growth when it comes to algae, stop that, you beat all species of algae.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Hilde]

I mean, take a look at what Tom Barr has proscribed in the past.

B/G algae - low-no nitrates
G/W - high levels of ammonia.
green algae - increase phosphates

Is it possible that high phosphates can cause nitrates to become low?

[unirdna]

Originally Posted by plantbrain

Your goal was to grow plants, not kill algae, so grow the plants! ... The focus is always new growth when it comes to algae, stop that, you beat all species of algae.

Anyone struggling with algae issues should print the above words and tape them to their aquarium stand.

Proper water parameters (ie. healthy plants) is the "immune system", Excel is the "salve".

[brion0]

Your goal was to grow plants, not kill algae, so grow the plants!

When I see a post by plantbrain, I read it. Alot goes over my head, but I think I can understand this.

Thanks,

Brion

[amp]

Im battling BBA & hair/thread algae right now and I have literally stood in front of my tank and said those exact words "Your goal was to grow plants, not kill algae, so grow the plants!" I know that part of my problem right now is under filtration since my magnum crapped out last week so Im only running a 2213 on my 55. I have another 2213 on the way so hopefully between that some RCS, Amanos and a couple more otos I'll be able to get eveything back into balance.

On a side note does anyone know if night time aeration with an airstone has any effect on BBA?