Ry's Mad Lab - Test for N,P,K,Ca,Mg, Fe, Zn & Cu using the Hanna HI83200 Photometer - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-24-2015, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
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Ry's Mad Lab - Test for N,P,K,Ca,Mg, Fe, Zn & Cu using the Hanna HI83200 Photometer

OK Time to get this done! I would like to apologize first and foremost for those who sent me their water samples from 2 weeks ago. I have yet to get them tested and I finally have today to process them. I will need to confirm if one of the sample yields the expected values so I'll be posting one result first then after the user confirms if the results look like what they expect then we can move on with all the samples.

Either way I will offer everyone who sent their water a chance to resend their samples again since the water has been sitting for 2 weeks. If you'd like to get your water tested again please PM me and send me the sample using the same procedures.

About this post:
This is a water parameter testing using a lab grade photometer from Hanna Instruments. I purchased this photometer for personal use but I do have access to at least 50 tests. I wanted more precision when it comes to reading water nutrient levels to be able to play/experiment with them. I offered free testing of water samples from other users in order to get experience using this piece of equipment and get some ideas about what parameters other people are running with.

The Equipment:

Hannah HI3200 Benchtop Multiparameter Photometer
Photometer can measure 44 different water parameters (as long as you buy the reagents) and features result logging and a digital readout. This is the big daddy of test kits =)

The parameters to test:

N,P,K,Ca,Mg,K,Fe,Cu and Zinc. Test reagents are all from Hanna Instruments.


Misc Equipment:

Hanna Sample preparation kit - came with the photometer
8 x Testing cuvettes (individually marked) - I use one cuvette for each test except for Iron/Copper and Ca/K since I don't have enough cuvettes.
Digital Timer
N95 particle mask - for safety and used when dealing with powdered reagents
UVEX Safety Goggles - for safety
DynaPlus II Nitrile gloves - for safety
MagicFiber lint free - reusable wipes for wiping the outside of cuvettes
Kimtech Disposable lint free wipes - for wiping the inside of the cuvettes to dry them out
Germ Guardian Air purifier - for sucking out the little reagent blown from the packets and keeping our dining table clean from them
Black plastic tray - for keeping reagents powder from being blown around the table.
Disposable pipettes - used for Ca/Mg testing.
Wash bottles - contains RO water for washing cuvettes

Testing procedures followed to keep reading accurate:
All syringes and equipment for holding water samples are cleaned with RO water after switching samples.
All cuvettes are washed 3-4 times with RO water when being cleaned
All cuvettes are dryed inside using the kimtech disposable wipes
All cuvettes are pre-washed and dumped empty with sample water before filling the cuvette with the required sample volume - this allows no other liquid source to be in the cuvette to lessen contamination from RO or other water.
All cuvettes are cleaned after reading of the results - this prevents any tinting of the cuvette by the test reagents which can throw off the readings.
Each test is logged into the machine.

Disclaimer:
This device is not 100% accurate. You can check the manual here to see the accuracy parameters for each test to give you a better idea of the +/-% when it comes to the accuracy. Also I am not a chemist nor do I work in a lab but I do try to follow the test procedures best I can to ensure accuracy of the results.

Bump: Processing Solcielo lawrencia 09/27 Water sample...

Solcielo lawrencia 09/27 Water sample test results
Something is wrong with the Ca test. I am trying to figure out how I can end up with 0 ppm Ca. Could be the new reagent kit that I got.


bsantucci tank water results (charging my phone to take pictures of readouts =)

Nitrate - 43.2 ppm
Phosphate - 14.7
K - 46 ppm
MG - 20 ppm
Ca - 10 ppm (could be bad reagent - going to test with my other photometer)
Fe - 3.47 ppm
Cu - 0.088 ppm


The Zinc test is still resulting in 0 so I'm skipping that for now.

Last edited by PortalMasteryRy; 10-25-2015 at 06:08 PM. Reason: Updated with new results photo
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post #2 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-24-2015, 08:00 PM
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Oooh, fancy, it comes with what looks like a P1000.

Anthony

A Primer to Pressurized CO2 and A Primer to Planted Tanks
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post #3 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-24-2015, 08:17 PM
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The 9/27 sample was taken after a 75% water change. I added ~12ppm of K (from K2SO4), and ~.2ppm of PO4 (KH2PO4) so the ranges should be around these levels. NO3 should be very low, under 5ppm.
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post #4 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-24-2015, 09:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcielo lawrencia View Post
The 9/27 sample was taken after a 75% water change. I added ~12ppm of K (from K2SO4), and ~.2ppm of PO4 (KH2PO4) so the ranges should be around these levels. NO3 should be very low, under 5ppm.
Everything looks OK except your Cu. The copper registered at 50 ppb or 0.05 ppm which is very high. I am going to test the Zinc and if it is low the you have copper leaking into your water. Btw the Fe tested @ .4 ppm which is OK so I don't know how you ended up with 0.05 ppm Copper.

You were close on the other parameters. The nitrate registered at 8.8 ppm, K was 34 ppm and Phosphates at 2.0 ppm.

I am taking some pictures of the results screen but I'll be posting all the parameters soon.
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post #5 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-24-2015, 09:28 PM
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Really? The Cu is 0.05ppm? Even after a 75% WC? So I'm overdosing CSM+B. I added some FeDTPA as well so I can probably reduce micros dosing. That also explains a lot of things in terms of growth of certain plants such as the Rotala's with twisting leaves.

Calculating for K, if there was almost no uptake, then 34ppm sounds reasonable. 50ppm/2 (50%wc) +12ppm = 37ppm.

The end of week sample should show what the K uptake rate is.

The Cu levels would explain some RCS deaths.
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post #6 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-24-2015, 10:05 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcielo lawrencia View Post
Really? The Cu is 0.05ppm? Even after a 75% WC? So I'm overdosing CSM+B. I added some FeDTPA as well so I can probably reduce micros dosing. That also explains a lot of things in terms of growth of certain plants such as the Rotala's with twisting leaves.

Calculating for K, if there was almost no uptake, then 34ppm sounds reasonable. 50ppm/2 (50%wc) +12ppm = 37ppm.

The end of week sample should show what the K uptake rate is.

The Cu levels would explain some RCS deaths.
Yep. I used the Cu test once on my tank and it tested .034 ppm or 34 ppb and that was prior to water change. So .05 ppm Cu is very high.

The Zinc test yielded 0.0. It looks like the level we are testing are too small to detect. I will test it with my water after I complete testing your water and see if the machine can't handle the small amounts we are trying to test for.
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post #7 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-24-2015, 10:58 PM Thread Starter
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Results posted with a screenshot of the meter readings. The only thing that is weird is the calcium. I don't know how I ended up with 0 ppm. I am going to retest with my other photometer. I'm worried that the new reagent kit that I got is bad. The last one I ended up contaminating the reagent B so I purchased a this new one but it is an older kit with the expiration date for 2018.
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post #8 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-24-2015, 11:23 PM
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Calcium shouldn't be 0 because I dose 4ppm extra each week from Ca(NO3)2.
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post #9 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-25-2015, 12:31 AM Thread Starter
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Testing my water from 2 tanks and see if I get 0 results.

My 40B resulted in 30 PPM Ca and my 20L resulted in 70 PPM Ca.

I'm going to restest the sample again. Maybe I missed adding the reagent from the dropper.

Last edited by PortalMasteryRy; 10-25-2015 at 01:25 AM. Reason: update
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post #10 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-25-2015, 12:59 AM
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Hey Ry just saw this posting. Do you think the water sitting as long as it did will affect the results? I don't mind shipping two more bottles if so. Let me know! I'm excited to see what my tap water is to see if my suspicions are correct.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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post #11 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-25-2015, 01:29 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bsantucci View Post
Hey Ry just saw this posting. Do you think the water sitting as long as it did will affect the results? I don't mind shipping two more bottles if so. Let me know! I'm excited to see what my tap water is to see if my suspicions are correct.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
I will test your water but feel free to ship a new batch so we can be more accurate with the results.

The water containers were kept in a dark cool box and if the containers are doing their job then no contamination/reaction should happen that should affect the results.

I am refilling my wash bottles with new RO water then I'm going to continue testing. I'm almost out since I had to wash the zinc cuvettes 6 times. The Zinc test was scary because the reagent was Potassium Cyanide which is a deadly poison. I'm thinking if I can't get a Zinc reading from my tank that I might drop that test for safety concerns.

Last edited by PortalMasteryRy; 10-25-2015 at 01:41 AM. Reason: Update
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post #12 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-25-2015, 05:19 PM Thread Starter
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@bsantucci: I posted your test results. I'll take pictures of the readouts after my phone is charged.

Btw I did test my tank water after your copper readout since it was very high and my tank after 10 days without water change was resulting in 0.029 ppm Copper so your Cu is very high.
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post #13 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-25-2015, 05:40 PM
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I was dosing EI daily, adding .1ppm of Fe from CSM+B. So it seems the Cu (and other micros) accumulates to pretty high levels over the weeks, even after large water changes. Something doesn't seem right. Why would it accumulate so high? Are we dosing way too much? Is the suggested EI levels for micros excessive? Are the online calculators we use inaccurate?
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post #14 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-25-2015, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PortalMasteryRy View Post
@bsantucci: I posted your test results. I'll take pictures of the readouts after my phone is charged.

Btw I did test my tank water after your copper readout since it was very high and my tank after 10 days without water change was resulting in 0.029 ppm Copper so your Cu is very high.
This is wild and not what I expected. I expected little magnesium and higher calcium but I have the reverse now. So that I'm guessing is affecting my leaves and causing the curling and perhaps the stunting.

Now I need to go and completely rethink my dosing. I've been using standard EI dosing per the calculators but thats juat way too much it seems. Maybe I'll bring it down and dose for a 40g tank versus my 48g and see if that changes anything. I thinking I almost don't have to dose nitrates. I only feed every other day too so I'm wondering where the high Phosphates are coming from. Perhaps the calculators and weighing the ferts is too high and I should go back to just using spoons per the sticky on this site.

The copper is crazy too. I guess my pipes leak copper too. My Amanos and snails all do fine though.

I'm literally blown away. It seems my tank just isn't taking in any nutrients. I only have gsa but I guess that is from these numbers. Any thoughts or ideas from you all?

I don't think my tap has high nitrates. Water report I believe said no more than 2ppm was ever measures. Zero Phosphates.

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post #15 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-25-2015, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcielo lawrencia View Post
I was dosing EI daily, adding .1ppm of Fe from CSM+B. So it seems the Cu (and other micros) accumulates to pretty high levels over the weeks, even after large water changes. Something doesn't seem right. Why would it accumulate so high? Are we dosing way too much? Is the suggested EI levels for micros excessive? Are the online calculators we use inaccurate?
That's what I'm wondering. I got a scale and measure specifically to be more accurate. I did notice when switching to weighing that the csm+b measured was much more than the spooning I was doing.

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