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post #1 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-17-2014, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
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Regulator Build

I decided to try my hand at building my first regulator and wanted to get some feedback.

I started with a Concoa 432 regulator. It's in excellent condition (seller claimed it was only used once to validate it works).



It has mismatching gauges which is worrisome but I decided to take the chance.

Here is the (updated) breakdown of parts list:
- Concoa 432 (Stainless Steel) - $62
- Replacement matching high pressure gauge (5500228) - $17.50
- Gem 24v 0.65w Solenoid (Stainless Steel) - $28
- Swagelok needle valve (SS-ORF2-A) - $30
- Swagelok check valve (SS-4C-1/3) - $21
- Swagelok SS connectors/adapters (2xSS-2-ME, SS-4-HP, SS-4-HRN-2, SS-4-TA-1-2) - $43.75
- CGA 320 Nipple/Nut (Aluminum) - $12


Total: $214.25

A little more than I was hoping but I think can live with $200 for an (almost) all stainless steel regulator.

Last edited by rdmustang1; 03-19-2014 at 12:24 PM. Reason: Updated prices
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post #2 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-17-2014, 07:11 PM
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Nice regulator and thats a killer setup.

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post #3 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-17-2014, 08:33 PM
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I doubt it was used once. If it really was used once, the gauge wouldn't have needed to be replaced. Anyway, since the outlet pressure of the CO2 tank is 842psi, you can change it to a 1500psi or 2000psi gauge so that it's more accurate.
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post #4 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-17-2014, 08:37 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcielo lawrencia View Post
I doubt it was used once. If it really was used once, the gauge wouldn't have needed to be replaced. Anyway, since the outlet pressure of the CO2 tank is 842psi, you can change it to a 1500psi or 2000psi gauge so that it's more accurate.
I tend to agree with you but it was a good price so I took a chance. I bought a 4000 psi gauge as that's what it was equipped with originally, plus the only one I could find, and a steal (imo) at $17 shipped. I think the original gauge would have worked OK but the difference between a $186 setup with mismatched gauges vs a $203 setup with matching gauges gives me a bigger smile when I look at it. Plus if I ever resell it then I can probably get a lot more if it's in the original condition.
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post #5 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-17-2014, 10:01 PM
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Nice regulator. I would pitch the aluminum nut & nipple, and get a stainless steel or chrome plated one. Looks much better.

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post #6 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-17-2014, 10:08 PM
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What is the watt rating of GEM solenoid?

You have to be really good luck to find a predyne 1/8 npt port solenoid that is less than 3 watts, these models are really rare.
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post #7 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-17-2014, 10:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exv152 View Post
Nice regulator. I would pitch the aluminum nut & nipple, and get a stainless steel or chrome plated one. Looks much better.
Unfortunately they are very rare. The only source I could find was $75 which is about 4 times more than I wanted to spend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettatail View Post
What is the watt rating of GEM solenoid?

You have to be really good luck to find a predyne 1/8 npt port solenoid that is less than 3 watts, these models are really rare.
It's 6 watts. I know it'll produce extra heat but the price difference was so large I couldn't justify going with something better.
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post #8 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-17-2014, 11:43 PM
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That Swagelok metering valve a bit large, no? I'm not sure if you can use it as it's a Integral Bonnet Needle Valve and not those low flow, fine tuning valves.

Fear not, if you're willing to spend the 20 ish dollrs, there are metering Swagelok around that.



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post #9 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-18-2014, 12:28 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingHellFish View Post
That Swagelok metering valve a bit large, no? I'm not sure if you can use it as it's a Integral Bonnet Needle Valve and not those low flow, fine tuning valves.

Fear not, if you're willing to spend the 20 ish dollrs, there are metering Swagelok around that.
It has a CV of 0.09 which is fine tunable based on what I read. Is that not right? Uncertainties like this are why I posted the thread. It's all new to me.

[EDIT]: The Swagelok S-series needle valves (which are considered some of the top of the line and which is on my other regulator) have a CV of 0.09 also. The SS-ORF2 requires 8 full rotations to be open.

Last edited by rdmustang1; 02-18-2014 at 01:43 AM. Reason: typo
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post #10 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-18-2014, 01:41 AM
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I'm not familiar with that Swagelok series, but I know they have metering valves made for low flow.

I can't see how they would have two products competing with each other.

Looking at the graph, I'm pretty sure this can't be used for our hobby. You're dealing with 0.X with this valve compare to 0.00X with the S.

I have an S series metering valve, and it's stats are all lower than the valve you mention. Even with a venires handle, at 2 - 3 turns, you're dealing with a bps so high you can't even count.

Beside, I think there are some NuPro and S series on the bay for around that price. I always seem to see them for 20 - 40 dollars, take a look.




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post #11 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-18-2014, 01:54 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingHellFish View Post
I'm not familiar with that Swagelok series, but I know they have metering valves made for low flow.

I can't see how they would have two products competing with each other.

Looking at the graph, I'm pretty sure this can't be used for our hobby. You're dealing with 0.X with this valve compare to 0.00X with the S.

I have an S series metering valve, and it's stats are all lower than the valve you mention. Even with a venires handle, at 2 - 3 turns, you're dealing with a bps so high you can't even count.

Beside, I think there are some NuPro and S series on the bay for around that price. I always seem to see them for 20 - 40 dollars, take a look.

You're probably right but I've already bought it and will try. I've been watching eBay for the past 2 weeks and haven't seen anything familiar for < $70.

On a side note, I have an S series with a vernier handle and mine is turned up about 10 rotations to get a good CO2 rate. Not sure what the difference would be. I'm still hoping this larger valve will work well enough. I knew it wouldn't be as nice as the S-series but it was < 1/2 the cost.

EDIT: <crossing my fingers>Guy here says he saw someone claiming success with the O series needle valves: http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?...-to-co2/page-3.. I really hope it works. I don't want to be out $30 + more for another valve...
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post #12 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-18-2014, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdmustang1 View Post
You're probably right but I've already bought it and will try. I've been watching eBay for the past 2 weeks and haven't seen anything familiar for < $70.

On a side note, I have an S series with a vernier handle and mine is turned up about 10 rotations to get a good CO2 rate. Not sure what the difference would be. I'm still hoping this larger valve will work well enough. I knew it wouldn't be as nice as the S-series but it was < 1/2 the cost.

EDIT: <crossing my fingers>Guy here says he saw someone claiming success with the O series needle valves: http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?...-to-co2/page-3.. I really hope it works. I don't want to be out $30 + more for another valve...



10 rotations? You sure you don't have a leak or something. The factory max for the S series is 10, or did you mean something else? The majority of people lower their stem (I will never question Josh again), to get a usable bps.

The CV is not the only thing that determines the control, thus the difference in the graph. Integral Bonnet Needle Valve are more of a high flow, they have shut off function which is typical for high flow. And how in the world did that guy in your link able to count 30 bps? Did he video tape it and slow down the frames? Anyways, that needle valve of yours does work, if you got a swimming pool size tank.

I don't know though, I could be totally wrong on this. And that a nice Concoa 400 series regulator, all SS steel, very nice!



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post #13 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-18-2014, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingHellFish View Post
10 rotations? You sure you don't have a leak or something. The factory max for the S series is 10, or did you mean something else? The majority of people lower their stem (I will never question Josh again), to get a usable bps.

The CV is not the only thing that determines the control, thus the difference in the graph. Integral Bonnet Needle Valve are more of a high flow, they have shut off function which is typical for high flow. And how in the world did that guy in your link able to count 30 bps? Did he video tape it and slow down the frames? Anyways, that needle valve of yours does work, if you got a swimming pool size tank.

I don't know though, I could be totally wrong on this. And that a nice Concoa 400 series regulator, all SS steel, very nice!
I thought it was 10. It's actually 7.5 rotations. Pretty sure I don't have leaks as I've tested it at least 6 times since setting it up and it's been set that way for a long time.

No idea on the 30bps. Maybe he's estimating? I'm estimating mine at 15-20 but that's just a swag. Of course I have 260 gallon of water to saturate and mine is controlled via a pH controller so it's not on all the time. Before the pH controller I was about 1 revolution lower than I am now, so ~6.5. I bumped it up a little so it would stay on for shorter periods of time.
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post #14 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-18-2014, 05:07 PM
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Oooh ok, now the high rotations make sense. I didn't know you had a monster 260 gallon.

Try out the O series valve, it could work I guess. You could always keep the O series and use it as a ball valve. With 20 bucks for a 100 dollar retail piece, still not bad.



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post #15 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-21-2014, 12:01 AM Thread Starter
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So I got the CGA 320 stem from ua hua. I couldn't get it to stop leaking no matter how tight I made it so I used tape on the threads. How bad is that? I was very careful to skip the first thread and keep any tape away from the edge.

Anyway, I got it hooked up to a paintball tank to test the regulator. It seems to hold the pressure.



I still don't have the needle valve that probably won't work so I can't test that. I'm going to try and wire up the solenoid tonight and start on the post body.

Any other tests I should perform?
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